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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Selmer saxes / VI's: are they just hard to play?

BobD
User ID: 1572034 Jun 24th 11:04 PM
I've been playing my VI now for about a month and while all the notes speak quite well on this horn I still have trouble with playing larger intervals. For example if I play this,slurred, starting from middle C and decending: C-B-C-A-C-G-C-F-C-E-C-D-C-C. When I get to low E,D,C these notes tend to want to play middle E,D,C. Another one that is difficult is doing maj 7th chords. Start on low C play C,E,G,B and then start back down on D and go D,F,A,C. It's difficult to get the D to speak cleanly. I don't know if this makes sense but the bottle line is this horn is tough for me to play and I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. i play a Link 7*. Perhaps an new mouthpiece would give me better response?

Thanks,
BobD

Thomas
User ID: 8032783 Jun 25th 4:28 AM
Bob, possibly it's an embrochure and air support issue-have you tried a smaller tip opening-maybe a 6*-I know from your postings the horn is new to you and gotten from a guy that knows his stuff-so the horn is probably ok.-but it couldn't hurt to have it leak checked.

danm
User ID: 9391453 Jun 25th 7:03 AM
I have been playing my MKVI now for a month. When I first got the horn I was having the octave jump that you were talking about. I took the horn to my tech and after he fixed all the leaks this no longer happens ever. I find my VI tenor the best and easiest horn I ever played.I play a Jody Jazz #8 and a D soloist with RIco #3 Plastocover reeds. I need this combo for its volume as I am in a 18 piece big band and we play outside a lot.

Ian O'B.
User ID: 8924643 Jun 25th 7:24 AM
I also play a VI tenor. For the first few months it was tough to play and I was using a large tip opening/facing mouthpiece. Now I am very well adjusted to it and it plays great. The only bad thing is that it's hard to move with any speed from anything above C#2 down to G1 or G#1 but this is a problem I've had with all horns.

BobD
User ID: 0352454 Jun 25th 9:14 AM
The horn is fine, no leaks. I took it to Les's shop and he said it plays fine. He played what I descibed as difficult very easily. I think I'm gonna try a 6 or 6* mouthpiece and maybe V16 #2 reeds. Then practice my ass off to get this thing playing the way I want.

BobD

Father Ray
User ID: 7782093 Jun 25th 9:17 AM
Bob-

Bring the VI by MARS sometime. I'dloveto play it, and you can check out my VI if you'd like. I'm in Wednesday 1-9. and Thursday 9-1.

Rollen
User ID: 9781133 Jun 25th 9:18 AM
BobD,

Why not experiment with reeds first? Try some Rico Royals 2.0 or 2.5's. I find that these play a bit easier than the V16's.

BobD
User ID: 0352454 Jun 25th 9:24 AM
Hey Father Ray I'll come by Thursday morning. You'll probably find that it's a good playing horn. I would like to check out your horn for a comparison.

Thanks,
BobD

Steve
User ID: 8026483 Jun 25th 11:21 AM
I noticed a similar problem when my reeds wear out. A harder reed fixed it for me.

Father Ray
User ID: 9461303 Jun 25th 4:04 PM
BobD-

I'll be here Thursday from 11-1, definitly stop by! I forgot to mention that we don't open til 11!

BohoSheets
User ID: 9969773 Jun 25th 4:26 PM
Bob and Ray (hey, aren't you a comedy team ?) can I come by too ? My VI might be too shiny for you though :-)

BATMAN
User ID: 9558813 Jun 25th 4:35 PM
awww...I wanna join the fun. Too bad I don't live anywhere NEAR there.... :)

I don't have that problem on my MK VI...and I play some large @$$ mpcs. I don't use super hard reeds like Father Ray there though... :)

It's perhaps an air support thing. I've found MK VIs to be generally responsive and easy to play. I can jump extreme octaves and intervals with ease...so I don't think they are hard to play.

I've heard clips of Les' Cds...if he says the horn plays fine, then it's fine! Outstanding player he is...

I think you'll be OK with more time on the horn. How long have you been playing tenor (just tenor!) and what horn have you been using before btw (if you don't mind me asking!)?

Father Ray
User ID: 9676623 Jun 25th 6:12 PM
Boho-

Certainly, come on down! WE'll have us a nice VI party.

The guy who set up my VI really made it sing. I've played vintage VI's, famous players' VI's, relaqed VI's, etc., but nothing has come close to this one. BUT, before the overhaul, it played nothing like this, so I think a lot of it is in the overhaul!

BobD
User ID: 8618193 Jun 25th 9:39 PM
Batman,

I played a bundy in highschool(20 years ago),and a Keilwerth student horn for the past 2 years. I've been on this VI for a month(I practice as much as a father of a 2 and a 5 year old,which ain't much). Les flat out says it's me and I agree with that assessment after seeing him play my horn. I think I'm going to try a smaller tip opening piece. Perhaps a Morgan 7L(.095 opening) or another Link around a 6* or 7. I have a friend that is going to give me a Steve Broadus piece but he says it needs a reface. I'll send it to Doc Tenney if it's the right piece(S3). Alright I'm startin to babble.

BobD

OnyxSax
User ID: 9683713 Jun 25th 9:53 PM
Mark VIs can be a little funny. They're so easy to blow, you can get away without as much breath support as you would with a Conn...that is until you start trying to hit the low notes. Good throat position and breath support will usually take care of the problem. I get careless from time to time and miss the notes, too.

FYI - My Conn Chu tenor is laid up right now, so I brought out the Mark VI to play some gigs. I am having a blast with the horn. No, it doesn't have the balls or power of a Conn, but the finesse of the horn is incredible.

BohoSheets
User ID: 1314254 Jun 25th 11:06 PM
BobD, that mpc that i'm keeeping is a Morgan 8L (.100). For everyone else, here is a quick(?) synopsis. I've been playing my Mark VI tenor (97xxx) for 3-4 weeks now, played alto (YANA 901) for the past year after running away from sax for 30ish years (I played alto and tenor prior). I currently have problems on tenor : playing in tune (in general, it seems), and E1 and D1 (oh yeah, and G2 G#2 acrosss the board), even though on this horn C1 and down is a dream. I had my horn overhauled by Les Arbuckle also (I've run into BobD each time i've been in to his shop :-)), and believe me, when Les plays it ... **DAMN**, its *most beautiful*, gives me something to spend the rest of my life looking for. So, yeah, Bob, its us, but thats cool ...

I played a Buescher in high school (low C# was always a pain), when I went to college, my brother (a clarinet player) took it, and (according to my dad), had trouble playing it (it might be the Berg 95/0 that I found in the case), so dad bought him a Selmer. Lo and behold, 25 years later, he mails the horn to me, says "i'm not using it, you take it, its been in the attic 25 years, needs new pads, yadda yadda...". I had always thought it was a Mark VII, but when I opened the case, I saw the Mark VI on bow/bell clamp, then I looked at the serial number ... after reading this group for the past year, I noted the significance and almost peed my pants !
Its a relaq, but of a good quality accorrding to Les (and indirectly my Dad, who rememebered it was a chemical strip and sand/bead(?) blast affair), but hey, my investment is the price of a real good overhaul, so i'm not complaining.

I've read this board over the past year in earnest, and I must admit i've poo-pooed a lot of the cultish threads involving vintage horns, but when I got this Selmer overhauled and strapped a nice large chambered mpc on it, even an idiot like me had to STAND UP AND TAKE NOTICE. There is something to this whole myth ...

Anyway. i'm rambling, but I guess my point is, anyone who has a *well regulated* vintage horn ala a Mark VI, or a Conn Chu/6M/10M or a Buescher Crat (insert other likely candidates here) ... it is indeed you ... play yer freakin horn ! (As Les rightly says, after you got the horn there are NO EXCUSES)

For those of you in the same situation as me, remember, its probably the healthiest mid-life crisis available :-)

BATMAN
User ID: 8492403 Jun 26th 12:51 AM
BobD---OK, cool. It sounds like you definately just need to spend some time with the horn. The MK VIs are very nice horns. 1 month is not really a lot of time with any new horn IMHO...play it for 6 months...and THEN see how it feels! You will probably be quite pleased :)

This is what long tone excersises were invented for!

BobD User ID: 1572034	Jun 24th 11:04 PM I've been playing my VI now for about a month and while all the notes speak quite well on this horn I still have trouble with playing larger intervals. For example if I play this,slurred, starting from middle C and decending: C-B-C-A-C-G-C-F-C-E-C-D-C-C. When I get to low E,D,C these notes tend to want to play middle E,D,C. Another one that is difficult is doing maj 7th chords. Start on low C play C,E,G,B and then start back down on D and go D,F,A,C. It's difficult to get the D to speak cleanly. I don't know if this makes sense but the bottle line is this horn is tough for me to play and I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. i play a Link 7*. Perhaps an new mouthpiece would give me better response? Thanks, BobD
Thomas User ID: 8032783	Jun 25th 4:28 AM Bob, possibly it's an embrochure and air support issue-have you tried a smaller tip opening-maybe a 6*-I know from your postings the horn is new to you and gotten from a guy that knows his stuff-so the horn is probably ok.-but it couldn't hurt to have it leak checked.
danm User ID: 9391453	Jun 25th 7:03 AM I have been playing my MKVI now for a month. When I first got the horn I was having the octave jump that you were talking about. I took the horn to my tech and after he fixed all the leaks this no longer happens ever. I find my VI tenor the best and easiest horn I ever played.I play a Jody Jazz #8 and a D soloist with RIco #3 Plastocover reeds. I need this combo for its volume as I am in a 18 piece big band and we play outside a lot.
Ian O'B. User ID: 8924643	Jun 25th 7:24 AM I also play a VI tenor. For the first few months it was tough to play and I was using a large tip opening/facing mouthpiece. Now I am very well adjusted to it and it plays great. The only bad thing is that it's hard to move with any speed from anything above C#2 down to G1 or G#1 but this is a problem I've had with all horns.
BobD User ID: 0352454	Jun 25th 9:14 AM The horn is fine, no leaks. I took it to Les's shop and he said it plays fine. He played what I descibed as difficult very easily. I think I'm gonna try a 6 or 6* mouthpiece and maybe V16 #2 reeds. Then practice my ass off to get this thing playing the way I want. BobD
Father Ray User ID: 7782093	Jun 25th 9:17 AM Bob- Bring the VI by MARS sometime. I'dloveto play it, and you can check out my VI if you'd like. I'm in Wednesday 1-9. and Thursday 9-1.
Rollen User ID: 9781133	Jun 25th 9:18 AM BobD, Why not experiment with reeds first? Try some Rico Royals 2.0 or 2.5's. I find that these play a bit easier than the V16's.
BobD User ID: 0352454	Jun 25th 9:24 AM Hey Father Ray I'll come by Thursday morning. You'll probably find that it's a good playing horn. I would like to check out your horn for a comparison. Thanks, BobD
Steve User ID: 8026483	Jun 25th 11:21 AM I noticed a similar problem when my reeds wear out. A harder reed fixed it for me.
Father Ray User ID: 9461303	Jun 25th 4:04 PM BobD- I'll be here Thursday from 11-1, definitly stop by! I forgot to mention that we don't open til 11!
BohoSheets User ID: 9969773	Jun 25th 4:26 PM Bob and Ray (hey, aren't you a comedy team ?) can I come by too ? My VI might be too shiny for you though :-)
BATMAN User ID: 9558813	Jun 25th 4:35 PM awww...I wanna join the fun. Too bad I don't live anywhere NEAR there.... :) I don't have that problem on my MK VI...and I play some large @$$ mpcs. I don't use super hard reeds like Father Ray there though... :) It's perhaps an air support thing. I've found MK VIs to be generally responsive and easy to play. I can jump extreme octaves and intervals with ease...so I don't think they are hard to play. I've heard clips of Les' Cds...if he says the horn plays fine, then it's fine! Outstanding player he is... I think you'll be OK with more time on the horn. How long have you been playing tenor (just tenor!) and what horn have you been using before btw (if you don't mind me asking!)?
Father Ray User ID: 9676623	Jun 25th 6:12 PM Boho- Certainly, come on down! WE'll have us a nice VI party. The guy who set up my VI really made it sing. I've played vintage VI's, famous players' VI's, relaqed VI's, etc., but nothing has come close to this one. BUT, before the overhaul, it played nothing like this, so I think a lot of it is in the overhaul!
BobD User ID: 8618193	Jun 25th 9:39 PM Batman, I played a bundy in highschool(20 years ago),and a Keilwerth student horn for the past 2 years. I've been on this VI for a month(I practice as much as a father of a 2 and a 5 year old,which ain't much). Les flat out says it's me and I agree with that assessment after seeing him play my horn. I think I'm going to try a smaller tip opening piece. Perhaps a Morgan 7L(.095 opening) or another Link around a 6* or 7. I have a friend that is going to give me a Steve Broadus piece but he says it needs a reface. I'll send it to Doc Tenney if it's the right piece(S3). Alright I'm startin to babble. BobD
OnyxSax User ID: 9683713	Jun 25th 9:53 PM Mark VIs can be a little funny. They're so easy to blow, you can get away without as much breath support as you would with a Conn...that is until you start trying to hit the low notes. Good throat position and breath support will usually take care of the problem. I get careless from time to time and miss the notes, too. FYI - My Conn Chu tenor is laid up right now, so I brought out the Mark VI to play some gigs. I am having a blast with the horn. No, it doesn't have the balls or power of a Conn, but the finesse of the horn is incredible.
BohoSheets User ID: 1314254	Jun 25th 11:06 PM BobD, that mpc that i'm keeeping is a Morgan 8L (.100). For everyone else, here is a quick(?) synopsis. I've been playing my Mark VI tenor (97xxx) for 3-4 weeks now, played alto (YANA 901) for the past year after running away from sax for 30ish years (I played alto and tenor prior). I currently have problems on tenor : playing in tune (in general, it seems), and E1 and D1 (oh yeah, and G2 G#2 acrosss the board), even though on this horn C1 and down is a dream. I had my horn overhauled by Les Arbuckle also (I've run into BobD each time i've been in to his shop :-)), and believe me, when Les plays it ... DAMN, its most beautiful, gives me something to spend the rest of my life looking for. So, yeah, Bob, its us, but thats cool ... I played a Buescher in high school (low C# was always a pain), when I went to college, my brother (a clarinet player) took it, and (according to my dad), had trouble playing it (it might be the Berg 95/0 that I found in the case), so dad bought him a Selmer. Lo and behold, 25 years later, he mails the horn to me, says "i'm not using it, you take it, its been in the attic 25 years, needs new pads, yadda yadda...". I had always thought it was a Mark VII, but when I opened the case, I saw the Mark VI on bow/bell clamp, then I looked at the serial number ... after reading this group for the past year, I noted the significance and almost peed my pants ! Its a relaq, but of a good quality accorrding to Les (and indirectly my Dad, who rememebered it was a chemical strip and sand/bead(?) blast affair), but hey, my investment is the price of a real good overhaul, so i'm not complaining. I've read this board over the past year in earnest, and I must admit i've poo-pooed a lot of the cultish threads involving vintage horns, but when I got this Selmer overhauled and strapped a nice large chambered mpc on it, even an idiot like me had to STAND UP AND TAKE NOTICE. There is something to this whole myth ... Anyway. i'm rambling, but I guess my point is, anyone who has a well regulated vintage horn ala a Mark VI, or a Conn Chu/6M/10M or a Buescher Crat (insert other likely candidates here) ... it is indeed you ... play yer freakin horn ! (As Les rightly says, after you got the horn there are NO EXCUSES) For those of you in the same situation as me, remember, its probably the healthiest mid-life crisis available :-)
BATMAN User ID: 8492403	Jun 26th 12:51 AM BobD---OK, cool. It sounds like you definately just need to spend some time with the horn. The MK VIs are very nice horns. 1 month is not really a lot of time with any new horn IMHO...play it for 6 months...and THEN see how it feels! You will probably be quite pleased :) This is what long tone excersises were invented for!