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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Selmer saxes / Series II

Next 20 Messages

David
User ID: 0234554 Mar 17th 11:10 PM
I play the alto. My teacher has been telling me to get a Selmer Series II for a long time. I trust his judgement and plan on getting one very soon. What am I getting? What am I getting in comparison to other Selmers and other proffesional models?

sherry
User ID: 0784604 Mar 18th 9:42 AM
Darker and more freeblowing than the Selmer Series III. I like the Series II alto - I also have a Yamaha Custom and a Yanagisawa 991. The 991 is my favorite overall for ease of playing and comfortable keywork. The Selmer has the most depth of sound. The Yanagisawa and Yamaha are better constructed. I don't care for the key layout on the Selmer.

Series II is an excellent choice.

Patrick
User ID: 8722703 Mar 19th 12:55 AM
I just ran accross an interesting auction on e-bay for a series II alto

SELMER PARIS MODEL 52 SERIES II ALTO SAXOPHON
Item # 851834269

Notice that saxophone is mis-spelled "SAXOPHON". I have to wonder if that is the reason there are no bids yet. I would have to guess it is at a good price still, and no bidders.

I am not endorsing this auction as I don't know the seller or the condition of the horn, it is just that you can come accross some unknowns on e-bay if you check misspellings such as "saxophon," "saxaphone," etc in addition to "saxophone."

Let us know how it goes for you, David!

Andrew D.
User ID: 1905964 Mar 19th 6:40 AM
Check out series 3 before you buy although series 2 is a quality horn there are different attributes to each model, I have tried many different brands but the nuances on a selmer with the rich sound I get, no other modern producer comes close, vintage is a different area which I have not fully explored but intend to do so, in the meantime my series 2 does the biz!!

David Apolloni
User ID: 7259523 Mar 19th 7:20 AM
It is always a good idea to check out a number of models before you buy. You can order from a number of mail order companies which will allow you to try out the saxes. Do this with your teacher. But also remember that you are laying down a great deal of money, and your teacher isn't going to be playing this horn--you are!
The Serie II and III horns are by all accounts very fine horns. I own a Serie II alto myself.

The tones of the II and III are comparable--perhaps the III is a little fuller and richer with the mouthpieces I use. The palmkeys on the III are better and more comfortably placed. The III also has a special mechanism which key middle C# in tune with standard fingering.

This last feature is both a blessing and a curse, because it makes the mechanism more complex and therefore potentially adds problems. My own teacher is sticking with her II while Selmer works the bugs out of the III. You should recognize also that plenty of people buy IIIs and have no problems.

Stay away from Ebay unless you have money to throw away. You might get a good horn this way, or you might end up spending a lot of money fixing something that shouldn't need to be fixed. If you want to get a used II or III horn, get it through someone you know and can trust--your teacher or repairperson, for example.

GaryL
User ID: 1884774 Mar 19th 12:15 PM
In the USA I'd say the SA80II is the "standard" for alto sax among music majors in colleges. There are many of them. Well made, sounds modern, brighter than a Mark VI, can't go wrong with this horn. Best buys are in the used market. Good ones sell for as little as $1800-$1900 US in newspaper ads.

Agree with David, none of my friends have gotten any sax of quality off eBay. I think eBay is a giant magnet that draws all the junk saxes on Earth to it. Then they are misrepresented to people who still think they can find a bargain when thousands of other people see the same item for sale and pass it by.

People will pay more for an item on eBay than they would if they went down to Walmart and bought it new! The lure of an auction overwhelms some people's good sense.

Andrew D.
User ID: 1905964 Mar 19th 12:39 PM
Would NEVER buy a horn off anyone if I could not spend some time evaluating it's qualities or lack thereof especially ebay, although I bought a horn off a dealer knowing I would more or less have to buy it, I still tested it & it was a quality new series 3 which I have since moved on ( still looking for the Jewel) no regrets!

soprano player
User ID: 1669454 Mar 19th 10:09 PM
I think series II is brighter than series III.

JMS
User ID: 1285974 Apr 2nd 1:56 PM
I own a Series II myself and I love it. However, mine is in black laquer which, correct me if I'm wrong, makes the sound a little darker.

Gordon (NZ)
User ID: 1265504 Apr 3rd 5:16 AM
"The sound from a black lacquer sax lacks colour."
That is as sily as saying that black makes the sound darker.
These connections are merely imaginings based on confusions between perceptions of the eye and the ears. Psychological tricks. The susceptible imagine these things, then spread them around for the gullible to believe and repeat as truths.
At least that's how I see it.
But I suppose if you believe in colour therapy you could believe anything!

Gary Markham
User ID: 8805943 Apr 3rd 6:20 AM
Amen, Gordon (NZ)

I don't see how changing the pigment in the laquer could possibly change anything related to the tone of the instrument.

MusicMan
User ID: 0464054 Apr 3rd 8:59 AM
Maybe the pigment type affects the final thickness of the lacquer coat, in effect dampening the inate vibrations of the metal, yeilding a different sound. Or maybe the pigment itself has an effect. You have to realize that pigment is a fine powder suspended in the solvent and lacquer bonders. I know a number of brass players who have had their horns stripped and swear the sound is brighter. I seem to remember a similar discussion concerning saxes here.

I think we're all in agreement that different metals affect the sound, so why not the materials used in the lacquer. Granted, due to the thicknesses involoved, I would think the effects would be minor, but I do think there could be an effect.

Gordon (NZ)
User ID: 1265504 Apr 3rd 11:57 PM
There's simply too much coincidence in the comments people make to be too serious about this.
Such as this type of thing:

Silver - brighter sound
Gold - warmer.
Platinum - richer.
Titanium - harder.
Lacquer - thicker.
Raw brass - free.
Plastic - I've heard some aweful things!
Black - darker.
Purple - ......

Yes, I know I made them up, but you get the picture.

Yes, thickness of the lacquer MAY make a discernable difference, but if this is what affects the sound, let's call it lacquer thickness, not black versus gold.

Note: I've scratched some mighty thin black lacquer!

MusicMan
User ID: 0464054 Apr 4th 9:34 AM
How 'bout this. I have also read comments here that the white lacquered horns were really dark sounding.......

Greensox
User ID: 0512724 Apr 4th 9:44 AM
I agree with you musicman. A black laquer horn would be darker than a polished laquered horn, because when a polished horn gets polished, it loses a little bit of the brass on the surface of the horn due to the polishing process. A black,white, or matte finish doesn't goe through this polishing process so it retains a little more metal. The little extra amount of metal darkens the sound. These are my thoughts.

Jerry K.
User ID: 0596854 Apr 4th 9:52 AM
Greensox, I would think that the saxes that are painted are also buffed prior to painting. Otherwise, you would probably have sort of a matt or imperfect finish in the end product.

Greensox
User ID: 0512724 Apr 4th 2:39 PM
I have to permission for quoting Miles Osland on the Selmer discusion page so i hope i dont get in trouble, but this is what he said on the "Selmer info & reviews" section:

Let me review my findings on clear lacquer vs. black lacquer: For the past 5 years I have been playing exclusively on a black lacquer Serie II. When I first started play-testing black and white lacquered horns over 7 years ago, I immediately found a big difference in the sound between all 3 options (clear, black & white). There are three more coats of lacquer on the black horns as compared to the clear, and 5 more coats on the white horns. Adding more coats of lacquer on a horn deadens the vibrations of the brass, thus darkening the sound. It truly feels like an extra layer of warmth/darkness to the tone is added when I play a black lacquer. Yet, for my personal taste, the white lacquer just go too far - the horn just feels dead, almost non-responsive in my hands when I play one. But Gerald Albright plays on a Serie II white lacquer, and I love his sound. It's mostly a feel/response issue with me (black vs. white) I just prefer the sound/feel/response of black lacquered horns.

Gordon (NZ)
User ID: 1265504 Apr 7th 4:33 AM
So presumably the Millenium Selmer with its immitation brushed-silver-plate lacquer would have the 5 more coats? Is there general agreement that it a really dead instrument? Hmm.

On the other hand perhaps it is really thin - there certainly does not seem to be much thickness when it is scratched - nowhere near the thickness of say a Bundy, Vito, or Yamaha student.

But Miles has far more expertise than I.

MBushaw
User ID: 9259363 Apr 7th 12:30 PM
But it is Silver-colored, so it MUST be brighter!!!

Gordon (NZ)
User ID: 1265504 Apr 8th 12:38 AM
But how could you say a thing like that!?!?!

Next 20 Messages

David User ID: 0234554	Mar 17th 11:10 PM I play the alto. My teacher has been telling me to get a Selmer Series II for a long time. I trust his judgement and plan on getting one very soon. What am I getting? What am I getting in comparison to other Selmers and other proffesional models?
sherry User ID: 0784604	Mar 18th 9:42 AM Darker and more freeblowing than the Selmer Series III. I like the Series II alto - I also have a Yamaha Custom and a Yanagisawa 991. The 991 is my favorite overall for ease of playing and comfortable keywork. The Selmer has the most depth of sound. The Yanagisawa and Yamaha are better constructed. I don't care for the key layout on the Selmer. Series II is an excellent choice.
Patrick User ID: 8722703	Mar 19th 12:55 AM I just ran accross an interesting auction on e-bay for a series II alto SELMER PARIS MODEL 52 SERIES II ALTO SAXOPHON Item # 851834269 Notice that saxophone is mis-spelled "SAXOPHON". I have to wonder if that is the reason there are no bids yet. I would have to guess it is at a good price still, and no bidders. I am not endorsing this auction as I don't know the seller or the condition of the horn, it is just that you can come accross some unknowns on e-bay if you check misspellings such as "saxophon," "saxaphone," etc in addition to "saxophone." Let us know how it goes for you, David!
Andrew D. User ID: 1905964	Mar 19th 6:40 AM Check out series 3 before you buy although series 2 is a quality horn there are different attributes to each model, I have tried many different brands but the nuances on a selmer with the rich sound I get, no other modern producer comes close, vintage is a different area which I have not fully explored but intend to do so, in the meantime my series 2 does the biz!!
David Apolloni User ID: 7259523	Mar 19th 7:20 AM It is always a good idea to check out a number of models before you buy. You can order from a number of mail order companies which will allow you to try out the saxes. Do this with your teacher. But also remember that you are laying down a great deal of money, and your teacher isn't going to be playing this horn--you are! The Serie II and III horns are by all accounts very fine horns. I own a Serie II alto myself. The tones of the II and III are comparable--perhaps the III is a little fuller and richer with the mouthpieces I use. The palmkeys on the III are better and more comfortably placed. The III also has a special mechanism which key middle C# in tune with standard fingering. This last feature is both a blessing and a curse, because it makes the mechanism more complex and therefore potentially adds problems. My own teacher is sticking with her II while Selmer works the bugs out of the III. You should recognize also that plenty of people buy IIIs and have no problems. Stay away from Ebay unless you have money to throw away. You might get a good horn this way, or you might end up spending a lot of money fixing something that shouldn't need to be fixed. If you want to get a used II or III horn, get it through someone you know and can trust--your teacher or repairperson, for example.
GaryL User ID: 1884774	Mar 19th 12:15 PM In the USA I'd say the SA80II is the "standard" for alto sax among music majors in colleges. There are many of them. Well made, sounds modern, brighter than a Mark VI, can't go wrong with this horn. Best buys are in the used market. Good ones sell for as little as $1800-$1900 US in newspaper ads. Agree with David, none of my friends have gotten any sax of quality off eBay. I think eBay is a giant magnet that draws all the junk saxes on Earth to it. Then they are misrepresented to people who still think they can find a bargain when thousands of other people see the same item for sale and pass it by. People will pay more for an item on eBay than they would if they went down to Walmart and bought it new! The lure of an auction overwhelms some people's good sense.
Andrew D. User ID: 1905964	Mar 19th 12:39 PM Would NEVER buy a horn off anyone if I could not spend some time evaluating it's qualities or lack thereof especially ebay, although I bought a horn off a dealer knowing I would more or less have to buy it, I still tested it & it was a quality new series 3 which I have since moved on ( still looking for the Jewel) no regrets!
soprano player User ID: 1669454	Mar 19th 10:09 PM I think series II is brighter than series III.
JMS User ID: 1285974	Apr 2nd 1:56 PM I own a Series II myself and I love it. However, mine is in black laquer which, correct me if I'm wrong, makes the sound a little darker.
Gordon (NZ) User ID: 1265504	Apr 3rd 5:16 AM "The sound from a black lacquer sax lacks colour." That is as sily as saying that black makes the sound darker. These connections are merely imaginings based on confusions between perceptions of the eye and the ears. Psychological tricks. The susceptible imagine these things, then spread them around for the gullible to believe and repeat as truths. At least that's how I see it. But I suppose if you believe in colour therapy you could believe anything!
Gary Markham User ID: 8805943	Apr 3rd 6:20 AM Amen, Gordon (NZ) I don't see how changing the pigment in the laquer could possibly change anything related to the tone of the instrument.
MusicMan User ID: 0464054	Apr 3rd 8:59 AM Maybe the pigment type affects the final thickness of the lacquer coat, in effect dampening the inate vibrations of the metal, yeilding a different sound. Or maybe the pigment itself has an effect. You have to realize that pigment is a fine powder suspended in the solvent and lacquer bonders. I know a number of brass players who have had their horns stripped and swear the sound is brighter. I seem to remember a similar discussion concerning saxes here. I think we're all in agreement that different metals affect the sound, so why not the materials used in the lacquer. Granted, due to the thicknesses involoved, I would think the effects would be minor, but I do think there could be an effect.
Gordon (NZ) User ID: 1265504	Apr 3rd 11:57 PM There's simply too much coincidence in the comments people make to be too serious about this. Such as this type of thing: Silver - brighter sound Gold - warmer. Platinum - richer. Titanium - harder. Lacquer - thicker. Raw brass - free. Plastic - I've heard some aweful things! Black - darker. Purple - ...... Yes, I know I made them up, but you get the picture. Yes, thickness of the lacquer MAY make a discernable difference, but if this is what affects the sound, let's call it lacquer thickness, not black versus gold. Note: I've scratched some mighty thin black lacquer!
MusicMan User ID: 0464054	Apr 4th 9:34 AM How 'bout this. I have also read comments here that the white lacquered horns were really dark sounding.......
Greensox User ID: 0512724	Apr 4th 9:44 AM I agree with you musicman. A black laquer horn would be darker than a polished laquered horn, because when a polished horn gets polished, it loses a little bit of the brass on the surface of the horn due to the polishing process. A black,white, or matte finish doesn't goe through this polishing process so it retains a little more metal. The little extra amount of metal darkens the sound. These are my thoughts.
Jerry K. User ID: 0596854	Apr 4th 9:52 AM Greensox, I would think that the saxes that are painted are also buffed prior to painting. Otherwise, you would probably have sort of a matt or imperfect finish in the end product.
Greensox User ID: 0512724	Apr 4th 2:39 PM I have to permission for quoting Miles Osland on the Selmer discusion page so i hope i dont get in trouble, but this is what he said on the "Selmer info & reviews" section: Let me review my findings on clear lacquer vs. black lacquer: For the past 5 years I have been playing exclusively on a black lacquer Serie II. When I first started play-testing black and white lacquered horns over 7 years ago, I immediately found a big difference in the sound between all 3 options (clear, black & white). There are three more coats of lacquer on the black horns as compared to the clear, and 5 more coats on the white horns. Adding more coats of lacquer on a horn deadens the vibrations of the brass, thus darkening the sound. It truly feels like an extra layer of warmth/darkness to the tone is added when I play a black lacquer. Yet, for my personal taste, the white lacquer just go too far - the horn just feels dead, almost non-responsive in my hands when I play one. But Gerald Albright plays on a Serie II white lacquer, and I love his sound. It's mostly a feel/response issue with me (black vs. white) I just prefer the sound/feel/response of black lacquered horns.
Gordon (NZ) User ID: 1265504	Apr 7th 4:33 AM So presumably the Millenium Selmer with its immitation brushed-silver-plate lacquer would have the 5 more coats? Is there general agreement that it a really dead instrument? Hmm. On the other hand perhaps it is really thin - there certainly does not seem to be much thickness when it is scratched - nowhere near the thickness of say a Bundy, Vito, or Yamaha student. But Miles has far more expertise than I.
MBushaw User ID: 9259363	Apr 7th 12:30 PM But it is Silver-colored, so it MUST be brighter!!!
Gordon (NZ) User ID: 1265504	Apr 8th 12:38 AM But how could you say a thing like that!?!?!