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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Selmer saxes / WHY are MKVI so cherished?

Next 20 Messages

Daffodil-11
User ID: 2100804 Sep 19th 7:56 PM
The way they are praised one would think they were made by none less than the almighty.

Cross resale value off the list and tell me why a MKVI is superior.

In several months I will be upgrading. I plan to try a YTS-62, a MKVI, a MKVII, a YTS-875, and a few others before I plunk down my cash. Whatever I end up with I don't intend to sell so resale is trivial. I want a good tenor to last me the rest of my life.

Style: jazz-fusion-experimental.

I am looking for an excellent dynamic range, respectable intontation and a full but not obtrusive tone. Fun to play is a must :) At present my MPC of choice is a Selmer C** with a rico royal 2 or 2.5 reed (I moved to 2.5 but still have a bunch of 2s I use when I'm feelin old). My present tenor horn is a yts-23. I need to keep it under $3,000. $2,000 would be nice.

Dennis D.
User ID: 9997253 Sep 19th 10:46 PM
If you're keeping it under $3,000, you can cross the Mark VI off of your list. Their prices seem to have exploded the past 5 years. I am not sure what I would do with a $5,000 tenor. It's too big for a safe deposit box!

Be sure to try the Series II and also a used Keilwerth. Both of those models have many satisfied owners.

Cashsax
User ID: 9014973 Sep 19th 11:17 PM
They were simply the very best engineered horn in their day and produced a tone to go with it. A benchmark Saxophone and still preferred by most top players today.

AG
User ID: 9892733 Sep 20th 12:12 AM
If it's an alto you want try the SA80 Serie II with a ser. no. around 500xxx, these seem to have a rich, dark tone; later ones are a little brighter if that's what you are looking for. Or for a really good bargain try the Mark VII, earlier ones seem to be more preferred. They have a thick, lush tone and really sing.

Daffodil-11
User ID: 2100804 Sep 20th 12:27 AM
Keilwerth was on the list too, I know a sax shop that has three MKVI, one for $27 one for $32 and one for $42.

All consignment.

Daffodil-11
User ID: 2100804 Sep 20th 12:29 AM
(add two zeros)

Thomas
User ID: 0930774 Sep 20th 6:03 AM
the horn you described wanting sounded exactly like a MK VII

lesax
User ID: 1251404 Sep 20th 6:27 AM
The reason the Mark VI is so highly praised is that the players who are capable of making the FINEST,most perceptive distinctions, have chosen it as their preffered tool. That doesn't mean that there aren't other horns that are truly great, just that great players in Jazz and "Fusion" music ( like Mike Brecker,Coltrane,Sonny Rollins,etc.....)play the Mark VI more than any other horn. Some other great horns are the Conn 10m,12M, and 6m, The Selmer "super" balanced and balanced action, King super 20 (mostly the alto) and the Martin Commitee. The various Bueschers have a small but loyal following, but I know of no high level pros (jazz-wise) who are currently playing a Buescher. Sonny Rollins made his first recordings on a Buescher "Big B" tenor.

Andrew D
User ID: 1696934 Sep 20th 6:51 AM
Many of today's greats grew with these instruments & there sound is embedded within the V1 so they will not easily change, the transision from vintage to modern can take many months if not years to fully establish a pro's sound, However the more modern instrument has a lot to offer and should not be discounted, just coz M. Brecker play's a V1 it don't mean you should, There is a lot more to offer with regards to mod instruments today than when these guy's were aquiring MV1s in the 60s & 70s. Go for your own sound!!

If you really want a MV1 I know a guy whose selling a 86xxx alto $2700, it's got a great sound but I would never trade it for the sound of my millenium.

Andrew D
User ID: 1696934 Sep 20th 7:49 AM
opps!! your looking for tenor

Gordon (NZ)
User ID: 1265504 Sep 20th 7:27 PM
LeSax, what is your equivalent list of 'greats' playing Yanagisawa or Yamaha?
Or are ther none?

Fun Bun
User ID: 2616364 Sep 20th 7:40 PM
Hasn't Phil Woods switched from Mark VI to new Yamaha prototype?

lesax
User ID: 1251404 Sep 21st 7:02 AM
Gordon,
I personally know of no high level pros playing the Yani or Yamaha altos or tenors. That doesn't mean there aren't any, just none I know of. Sopranos are another story, as the improvements in key work and intonation are so dramatic that many people who wouldn't be caught dead playing a Japanese tenor prefer the new Yani or Yamaha(or Selmer) sopranos. When Josh and Mike and Jerry and Eddie D. and Joe L. and Chris S. and Chris P. and Jesse D. and Charles M. and Lenny P and the rest of 'em start taking the Yanis and Yamahas INTO THE STUDIO, THEN you will see a real trend toward the new horns start to form. Until I play one of these new horns that does everything the horns I listed can do, I'll just have to stick to my Conns and Selmers etc...... The new horns are always highly praised at first, then as reality sets in, its the same old story. Who knows? Maybe they'll make a better violin while they are at it. I can just see the New York Philharmonic tossing their crappy old Strads and Guarneris and God knows what other kind of old violins(I don't) and going for the new Yamaha Pro violin in Red lacquer, or how about a new Yani in white sparkle!!!?? I bet they'd sound great then!!
But seriously, I heard that Phil Woods is playing the latest Yani or Yamaha and that it is quite good. I also see Mike Smith endorsing the Keilworth, But I hear that he RECORDS with one of his many Silversonic altos. That's cause he wants to sound his best when it's preserved for all time. Let's see what Phil takes to the studio. Am I highly skeptical? Yes. Am I willing to consider the possibility of a better horn coming along? Yes. Don't tell me, SHOW me.

Andres
User ID: 0276214 Sep 21st 8:13 AM
Mel Martin has been loyal to Yani for years. Pete Christlieb played Yamahas for quite a while (in the 80's I believe), as did/does Denis DiBlasio.

All top level pros, IMO.

Tommy Boy
User ID: 2275264 Sep 21st 10:03 AM
lesax, your comparison between saxophones and violins is flawed. (I play both) First of all comparing a Stradivari violin to a Yamaha electric is like comparing a Mark VI to a brand new EWI. A better comparison would be with a Stradivari and a current production, well made German or Italian violin. Secondly, due to the characteristics of the violin, it is almost a fact that violins sound better with age. The same may be true of saxophones, but it hasn't been established as near fact. Third, the ergonomics of the saxphone has changed drastically and intonation characteristics are also continually being improved upon. The violin itself has been virtually unchanged for probably 100+ years. Your point is well taken though. After buying my Ref 54, it would take a saxophone that is at least twice as good to get me to replace it. Especially after I've been playing it for a number of years. I can understand why some people are unwilling to give up their Mark VI's for anything else.

lesax
User ID: 1251404 Sep 21st 12:19 PM
You are right. I know nothing about violins. Please excuse my clumsy analogy. I stand by the rest of my statement however.

antman
User ID: 1146894 Sep 21st 12:34 PM
daffodil , go get a Selmer polished brass/matte finished lacquered tenor!!!!!!!!!!! The Ref. 54 is better but you said you wanted to do fusion and rock . See this site and ask him. Selmersaxman.com

Tommy Boy
User ID: 2275264 Sep 21st 1:04 PM
No problem. Reading about a Strad being compared to a Yamaha was just too painful to let that analogy stand. :-) You point however is a valid one.

max
User ID: 8346323 Sep 21st 1:22 PM
I'll second the idea of trying out a bunch of Serie IIs, but add that you should also try them with some Serie III necks.
I love mine - it's stood up very well to a pile of VIs and BAs. Sure, there have been two or three that do sound better than my II, but not *that* much better.
They're not glamourous, but in IMHO, the sound:dollar ratio is tough to beat.

GaryL
User ID: 8625283 Sep 21st 1:42 PM
Paquito d'Rivera, Yamaha Custom Alto, says he loves it.

Next 20 Messages

Daffodil-11 User ID: 2100804	Sep 19th 7:56 PM The way they are praised one would think they were made by none less than the almighty. Cross resale value off the list and tell me why a MKVI is superior. In several months I will be upgrading. I plan to try a YTS-62, a MKVI, a MKVII, a YTS-875, and a few others before I plunk down my cash. Whatever I end up with I don't intend to sell so resale is trivial. I want a good tenor to last me the rest of my life. Style: jazz-fusion-experimental. I am looking for an excellent dynamic range, respectable intontation and a full but not obtrusive tone. Fun to play is a must :) At present my MPC of choice is a Selmer C** with a rico royal 2 or 2.5 reed (I moved to 2.5 but still have a bunch of 2s I use when I'm feelin old). My present tenor horn is a yts-23. I need to keep it under $3,000. $2,000 would be nice.
Dennis D. User ID: 9997253	Sep 19th 10:46 PM If you're keeping it under $3,000, you can cross the Mark VI off of your list. Their prices seem to have exploded the past 5 years. I am not sure what I would do with a $5,000 tenor. It's too big for a safe deposit box! Be sure to try the Series II and also a used Keilwerth. Both of those models have many satisfied owners.
Cashsax User ID: 9014973	Sep 19th 11:17 PM They were simply the very best engineered horn in their day and produced a tone to go with it. A benchmark Saxophone and still preferred by most top players today.
AG User ID: 9892733	Sep 20th 12:12 AM If it's an alto you want try the SA80 Serie II with a ser. no. around 500xxx, these seem to have a rich, dark tone; later ones are a little brighter if that's what you are looking for. Or for a really good bargain try the Mark VII, earlier ones seem to be more preferred. They have a thick, lush tone and really sing.
Daffodil-11 User ID: 2100804	Sep 20th 12:27 AM Keilwerth was on the list too, I know a sax shop that has three MKVI, one for $27 one for $32 and one for $42. All consignment.
Daffodil-11 User ID: 2100804	Sep 20th 12:29 AM (add two zeros)
Thomas User ID: 0930774	Sep 20th 6:03 AM the horn you described wanting sounded exactly like a MK VII
lesax User ID: 1251404	Sep 20th 6:27 AM The reason the Mark VI is so highly praised is that the players who are capable of making the FINEST,most perceptive distinctions, have chosen it as their preffered tool. That doesn't mean that there aren't other horns that are truly great, just that great players in Jazz and "Fusion" music ( like Mike Brecker,Coltrane,Sonny Rollins,etc.....)play the Mark VI more than any other horn. Some other great horns are the Conn 10m,12M, and 6m, The Selmer "super" balanced and balanced action, King super 20 (mostly the alto) and the Martin Commitee. The various Bueschers have a small but loyal following, but I know of no high level pros (jazz-wise) who are currently playing a Buescher. Sonny Rollins made his first recordings on a Buescher "Big B" tenor.
Andrew D User ID: 1696934	Sep 20th 6:51 AM Many of today's greats grew with these instruments & there sound is embedded within the V1 so they will not easily change, the transision from vintage to modern can take many months if not years to fully establish a pro's sound, However the more modern instrument has a lot to offer and should not be discounted, just coz M. Brecker play's a V1 it don't mean you should, There is a lot more to offer with regards to mod instruments today than when these guy's were aquiring MV1s in the 60s & 70s. Go for your own sound!! If you really want a MV1 I know a guy whose selling a 86xxx alto $2700, it's got a great sound but I would never trade it for the sound of my millenium.
Andrew D User ID: 1696934	Sep 20th 7:49 AM opps!! your looking for tenor
Gordon (NZ) User ID: 1265504	Sep 20th 7:27 PM LeSax, what is your equivalent list of 'greats' playing Yanagisawa or Yamaha? Or are ther none?
Fun Bun User ID: 2616364	Sep 20th 7:40 PM Hasn't Phil Woods switched from Mark VI to new Yamaha prototype?
lesax User ID: 1251404	Sep 21st 7:02 AM Gordon, I personally know of no high level pros playing the Yani or Yamaha altos or tenors. That doesn't mean there aren't any, just none I know of. Sopranos are another story, as the improvements in key work and intonation are so dramatic that many people who wouldn't be caught dead playing a Japanese tenor prefer the new Yani or Yamaha(or Selmer) sopranos. When Josh and Mike and Jerry and Eddie D. and Joe L. and Chris S. and Chris P. and Jesse D. and Charles M. and Lenny P and the rest of 'em start taking the Yanis and Yamahas INTO THE STUDIO, THEN you will see a real trend toward the new horns start to form. Until I play one of these new horns that does everything the horns I listed can do, I'll just have to stick to my Conns and Selmers etc...... The new horns are always highly praised at first, then as reality sets in, its the same old story. Who knows? Maybe they'll make a better violin while they are at it. I can just see the New York Philharmonic tossing their crappy old Strads and Guarneris and God knows what other kind of old violins(I don't) and going for the new Yamaha Pro violin in Red lacquer, or how about a new Yani in white sparkle!!!?? I bet they'd sound great then!! But seriously, I heard that Phil Woods is playing the latest Yani or Yamaha and that it is quite good. I also see Mike Smith endorsing the Keilworth, But I hear that he RECORDS with one of his many Silversonic altos. That's cause he wants to sound his best when it's preserved for all time. Let's see what Phil takes to the studio. Am I highly skeptical? Yes. Am I willing to consider the possibility of a better horn coming along? Yes. Don't tell me, SHOW me.
Andres User ID: 0276214	Sep 21st 8:13 AM Mel Martin has been loyal to Yani for years. Pete Christlieb played Yamahas for quite a while (in the 80's I believe), as did/does Denis DiBlasio. All top level pros, IMO.
Tommy Boy User ID: 2275264	Sep 21st 10:03 AM lesax, your comparison between saxophones and violins is flawed. (I play both) First of all comparing a Stradivari violin to a Yamaha electric is like comparing a Mark VI to a brand new EWI. A better comparison would be with a Stradivari and a current production, well made German or Italian violin. Secondly, due to the characteristics of the violin, it is almost a fact that violins sound better with age. The same may be true of saxophones, but it hasn't been established as near fact. Third, the ergonomics of the saxphone has changed drastically and intonation characteristics are also continually being improved upon. The violin itself has been virtually unchanged for probably 100+ years. Your point is well taken though. After buying my Ref 54, it would take a saxophone that is at least twice as good to get me to replace it. Especially after I've been playing it for a number of years. I can understand why some people are unwilling to give up their Mark VI's for anything else.
lesax User ID: 1251404	Sep 21st 12:19 PM You are right. I know nothing about violins. Please excuse my clumsy analogy. I stand by the rest of my statement however.
antman User ID: 1146894	Sep 21st 12:34 PM daffodil , go get a Selmer polished brass/matte finished lacquered tenor!!!!!!!!!!! The Ref. 54 is better but you said you wanted to do fusion and rock . See this site and ask him. Selmersaxman.com
Tommy Boy User ID: 2275264	Sep 21st 1:04 PM No problem. Reading about a Strad being compared to a Yamaha was just too painful to let that analogy stand. :-) You point however is a valid one.
max User ID: 8346323	Sep 21st 1:22 PM I'll second the idea of trying out a bunch of Serie IIs, but add that you should also try them with some Serie III necks. I love mine - it's stood up very well to a pile of VIs and BAs. Sure, there have been two or three that do sound better than my II, but not that much better. They're not glamourous, but in IMHO, the sound:dollar ratio is tough to beat.
GaryL User ID: 8625283	Sep 21st 1:42 PM Paquito d'Rivera, Yamaha Custom Alto, says he loves it.