Sax on the Web Forum

Keilwerth Saxophones / Yam/Keil/Yani alto

Ralph
User ID: 1453344 Oct 26th 7:43 PM
Tried out a YAS custom 875 this week and didn't feel that it was quite what I was looking for. I have never tried comparable Keil/Yani but prices are within the same ballpark so I thought that I would add them to my list.

My question is about the horns' comparability. I think that my hesitation with the YAS was the tone since I am used to a couple of vintage horns that I use mostly - Conn 26M and a Martin committee II - the YAS just didn't sound right to my ears. Now I know that's very subjective but if I'm going to bite this $bullet, I'll have to get used to a bit of a different sound.

From what I read here, there should be no real problem with the 'functionality' of any of these horns, so, can anyone provide comments that would make me lean towards one vs another?

It's not that I'm not familiar with the Yamaha sound either, since I've had a YAS52 for a few years but don't play it much anymore - it is one of the horns that I'll be selling to pay for a new alto. I guess that I'd be looking at the Yani991 and Keil SX90 as being the comparables to the YAS875 - is that right?

Since I didn't see a topic comparing these three altos I thought that I'd start this up. Thoughts anyone???

Ralph

mostly alto guy
User ID: 0122954 Oct 27th 1:57 AM
If you're looking for a new horn with something that approximates the vintage American sound, Keilwerth is the one, but not everyone gets along with the JK keywork. Plus, each JK is different, and you might have to try several to find one that suits you. Also, JKs have notoriously sticky factory pads. You'll find the Yani 991 a lot like the Custom in terms of sound and build quality. Both models get raves for those traits. Still, I love my JKs and don't own a Yamaha or a Yani (though I've set my sights on one of the latter, if it ever hits the streets).

solflare100
User ID: 0276214 Oct 27th 2:25 AM
There's supposed to be a new Yamaha coming out with, as reported, "Big Sound". Also try the YAS-62 too, as some people actually prefer it to the Custom. Also, of course, try more than one. You never know the difference you can have between different horns.

stevew
User ID: 0171704 Oct 27th 3:26 AM
Agree wih all that, you may try the Keilwerth or indeed Guardala, for a more vintage vibe. And I also agree that the YAS 62 is the bang for the buck buy! Don't rule out the 901 series Yanis, either, they have a bit more of an open sound, probably because of having less weight than the 991/992.

Andrew D
User ID: 1696934 Oct 27th 10:42 AM
I think the kielwerth is the way to go if you like a big sounding horn although I am a selmer die hard, Imho yani & yam just don't do it for me sound wise although many pro horn players swear by these horns. keywork for me is secondary.

BigDaddyJ
User ID: 2623374 Oct 28th 9:37 AM
I used to play on a YAS-62, until I discovered vintage Martins. I tried a few B&S horns that blew me away. Selmer ergonomics with much better tone; more like my vintage horns. The SXR-90's I've tried were great, but didn't sound like the vintage horns you mentioned, Ralph.

Ralph
User ID: 1453344 Oct 28th 5:24 PM
If I had a real opportunity to easily try a few horns I would love to do that, but, where I am I was lucky to have the custom 875 in a store. No one in this area carrys the Keil/Yani horns.

Since I have a YAS52, I thought that a move to a 62 would not be much of a step up or difference in sound. Am I wrong in this?

What is the difference between the Yani 901 and the 991? I thought that the 991 was the new pro horn? Is the 901 an older horn or more of a comparable to the YAS62?

Selmers just seem far too pricy for what you get to me. [maybe a used horn?]

I guess that it is the vintage sound that is in my head and that I'm looking for in a new horn and maybe that will be hard to obtain. From the comments, though, it seems that I should be looking to try a Keilwerth. What are the differences in the Keilwerth pro models? What should I be looking for with these horns?
Thanks

stevew
User ID: 8868883 Oct 29th 7:27 AM
The 62 is a pro quality horn and many people prefer them to Customs, so try it and see what you think. The Yani 901 is a lower priced model than the 991, with less strapping on the body and some lower cost parts in the hardware - e.g. plastic rod guides rather than metal. It makes for a lighter horn, which is pretty much on a par with a Yamaha 62 in price.

The Keilwerth EX is rather like the 901 is for Yani, it's had a few economies in hardware and finish, but plays pretty much like the SX series. The SXR has soldered on tone hole rings, some say it gives a darker sound and/or increases pad life. It certainly helps the pads to stick (!). I wouldn't get hung up on it, though the SXR costs more, the tone hole rings are the only difference.

You have lots of choices of finish, see other threads for perceived differences. As for what to look for, see which one responds and feels good to you - I know that is a bit vague but that's what you are dealing with. Nevertheless, don't accept one that doesn't play easily down to the bottom (i.e. no leaks) but you might find the palm key notes hard to hit at first, that was my experience when I first got one, but now with experience, it's fine as it is into the altissimo area.

Your mouthpiece may not work well with a Keilwerth, try a Vandoren V5 Series, it seems to wave a magic wand over the intonation on these horns.

For a play test of many of these horns, have a look at the 'sax tests' on www.saxophones.co.uk, these were done by a good friend and former teacher of mine when he worked there, and I largely agree with his assessment of the qualities of those listed.

3Saxes
User ID: 6772333 Oct 29th 8:15 PM
Well, if money is an obstacle, I will withdraw my recommendation for the Yani A9937, but the A992 or the Keilwerth SX90/90R are all great horns and in my opinion, superior to the Yamaha 62 or Custom. The WW&BW will still allow you to try up to 3 horns on a 50% deposit on the most expensive horn and 30% on the others in your own home for 30-days. With a very low restock fee (like $10) if you don't buy any of them.

I have both the Yani 9937 and Keilwerth SX90R's in Alto and Tenor, and the Yani S9930 Soprano.

Good Luck!

Ralph
User ID: 1453344 Dec 2nd 3:03 PM
Just thought that I'd update this since I have now bought a Keilwerth nickel silver alto. Thanks to those who provided the feedback on my initial comment.

I managed to get a local shop to bring in both a nickel silver and a black nickel for me to try and I really took to the n/s. Beautiful sound and the action was great. While I would have liked to buy locally, I could not get any movement on the shop's price.

A note to any Canadian's reading this - I shopped for pricing in England/Europe/US, at shops that have been named on these threads frequently and got a MUCH better price, all-in, than I could even get close to here or in the U.S.

At any rate, just received my new horn today from saxophone.co.uk and have been playing for a short while. The sound of the nickel silver is really rich and full and beautiful to my ears. Just what I was looking for - a new horn with this rich timbre - what a treat to play since the action is wonderful and the keys feel great, easy to finger.

Now, sadly, I'll have to get around to selling a couple of my other altos - will post a notice in the right section when I'm in a position to provide pictures of my SML, Martin committee II, Yamaha 52 and maybe my Conn 26M (this one was my main horn). Will need to sell two of them.

WTB
User ID: 8673953 Dec 2nd 4:28 PM
Email me about the SML and Conn

Execujoe@yahoo.com

DanO
User ID: 8722703 Dec 6th 2:03 AM
Im surprised that you want to replace the real gem of the Conn line..Santy's 26M..
I would concider keeping this horn for your
back-up...send the Conn to one of the quality rebouild specialists here at the forum such as
Music Medic
Vintage sax
Worldwide Vintage sax
Sax Gourmet
Charles Fail music
Cyber Sax
Did I forget anyone?..with the right set up and MP..that Conn will blow most everything in the world away..
And now for the SML you got...Ive never played one..I have heard some good things! lol

mostly alto guy
User ID: 1864304 Dec 9th 4:43 AM
Email me about the 26M. mithril60@hotmail.com

Ralph User ID: 1453344	Oct 26th 7:43 PM Tried out a YAS custom 875 this week and didn't feel that it was quite what I was looking for. I have never tried comparable Keil/Yani but prices are within the same ballpark so I thought that I would add them to my list. My question is about the horns' comparability. I think that my hesitation with the YAS was the tone since I am used to a couple of vintage horns that I use mostly - Conn 26M and a Martin committee II - the YAS just didn't sound right to my ears. Now I know that's very subjective but if I'm going to bite this $bullet, I'll have to get used to a bit of a different sound. From what I read here, there should be no real problem with the 'functionality' of any of these horns, so, can anyone provide comments that would make me lean towards one vs another? It's not that I'm not familiar with the Yamaha sound either, since I've had a YAS52 for a few years but don't play it much anymore - it is one of the horns that I'll be selling to pay for a new alto. I guess that I'd be looking at the Yani991 and Keil SX90 as being the comparables to the YAS875 - is that right? Since I didn't see a topic comparing these three altos I thought that I'd start this up. Thoughts anyone??? Ralph
mostly alto guy User ID: 0122954	Oct 27th 1:57 AM If you're looking for a new horn with something that approximates the vintage American sound, Keilwerth is the one, but not everyone gets along with the JK keywork. Plus, each JK is different, and you might have to try several to find one that suits you. Also, JKs have notoriously sticky factory pads. You'll find the Yani 991 a lot like the Custom in terms of sound and build quality. Both models get raves for those traits. Still, I love my JKs and don't own a Yamaha or a Yani (though I've set my sights on one of the latter, if it ever hits the streets).
solflare100 User ID: 0276214	Oct 27th 2:25 AM There's supposed to be a new Yamaha coming out with, as reported, "Big Sound". Also try the YAS-62 too, as some people actually prefer it to the Custom. Also, of course, try more than one. You never know the difference you can have between different horns.
stevew User ID: 0171704	Oct 27th 3:26 AM Agree wih all that, you may try the Keilwerth or indeed Guardala, for a more vintage vibe. And I also agree that the YAS 62 is the bang for the buck buy! Don't rule out the 901 series Yanis, either, they have a bit more of an open sound, probably because of having less weight than the 991/992.
Andrew D User ID: 1696934	Oct 27th 10:42 AM I think the kielwerth is the way to go if you like a big sounding horn although I am a selmer die hard, Imho yani & yam just don't do it for me sound wise although many pro horn players swear by these horns. keywork for me is secondary.
BigDaddyJ User ID: 2623374	Oct 28th 9:37 AM I used to play on a YAS-62, until I discovered vintage Martins. I tried a few B&S horns that blew me away. Selmer ergonomics with much better tone; more like my vintage horns. The SXR-90's I've tried were great, but didn't sound like the vintage horns you mentioned, Ralph.
Ralph User ID: 1453344	Oct 28th 5:24 PM If I had a real opportunity to easily try a few horns I would love to do that, but, where I am I was lucky to have the custom 875 in a store. No one in this area carrys the Keil/Yani horns. Since I have a YAS52, I thought that a move to a 62 would not be much of a step up or difference in sound. Am I wrong in this? What is the difference between the Yani 901 and the 991? I thought that the 991 was the new pro horn? Is the 901 an older horn or more of a comparable to the YAS62? Selmers just seem far too pricy for what you get to me. [maybe a used horn?] I guess that it is the vintage sound that is in my head and that I'm looking for in a new horn and maybe that will be hard to obtain. From the comments, though, it seems that I should be looking to try a Keilwerth. What are the differences in the Keilwerth pro models? What should I be looking for with these horns? Thanks
stevew User ID: 8868883	Oct 29th 7:27 AM The 62 is a pro quality horn and many people prefer them to Customs, so try it and see what you think. The Yani 901 is a lower priced model than the 991, with less strapping on the body and some lower cost parts in the hardware - e.g. plastic rod guides rather than metal. It makes for a lighter horn, which is pretty much on a par with a Yamaha 62 in price. The Keilwerth EX is rather like the 901 is for Yani, it's had a few economies in hardware and finish, but plays pretty much like the SX series. The SXR has soldered on tone hole rings, some say it gives a darker sound and/or increases pad life. It certainly helps the pads to stick (!). I wouldn't get hung up on it, though the SXR costs more, the tone hole rings are the only difference. You have lots of choices of finish, see other threads for perceived differences. As for what to look for, see which one responds and feels good to you - I know that is a bit vague but that's what you are dealing with. Nevertheless, don't accept one that doesn't play easily down to the bottom (i.e. no leaks) but you might find the palm key notes hard to hit at first, that was my experience when I first got one, but now with experience, it's fine as it is into the altissimo area. Your mouthpiece may not work well with a Keilwerth, try a Vandoren V5 Series, it seems to wave a magic wand over the intonation on these horns. For a play test of many of these horns, have a look at the 'sax tests' on www.saxophones.co.uk, these were done by a good friend and former teacher of mine when he worked there, and I largely agree with his assessment of the qualities of those listed.
3Saxes User ID: 6772333	Oct 29th 8:15 PM Well, if money is an obstacle, I will withdraw my recommendation for the Yani A9937, but the A992 or the Keilwerth SX90/90R are all great horns and in my opinion, superior to the Yamaha 62 or Custom. The WW&BW will still allow you to try up to 3 horns on a 50% deposit on the most expensive horn and 30% on the others in your own home for 30-days. With a very low restock fee (like $10) if you don't buy any of them. I have both the Yani 9937 and Keilwerth SX90R's in Alto and Tenor, and the Yani S9930 Soprano. Good Luck!
Ralph User ID: 1453344	Dec 2nd 3:03 PM Just thought that I'd update this since I have now bought a Keilwerth nickel silver alto. Thanks to those who provided the feedback on my initial comment. I managed to get a local shop to bring in both a nickel silver and a black nickel for me to try and I really took to the n/s. Beautiful sound and the action was great. While I would have liked to buy locally, I could not get any movement on the shop's price. A note to any Canadian's reading this - I shopped for pricing in England/Europe/US, at shops that have been named on these threads frequently and got a MUCH better price, all-in, than I could even get close to here or in the U.S. At any rate, just received my new horn today from saxophone.co.uk and have been playing for a short while. The sound of the nickel silver is really rich and full and beautiful to my ears. Just what I was looking for - a new horn with this rich timbre - what a treat to play since the action is wonderful and the keys feel great, easy to finger. Now, sadly, I'll have to get around to selling a couple of my other altos - will post a notice in the right section when I'm in a position to provide pictures of my SML, Martin committee II, Yamaha 52 and maybe my Conn 26M (this one was my main horn). Will need to sell two of them.
WTB User ID: 8673953	Dec 2nd 4:28 PM Email me about the SML and Conn Execujoe@yahoo.com
DanO User ID: 8722703	Dec 6th 2:03 AM Im surprised that you want to replace the real gem of the Conn line..Santy's 26M.. I would concider keeping this horn for your back-up...send the Conn to one of the quality rebouild specialists here at the forum such as Music Medic Vintage sax Worldwide Vintage sax Sax Gourmet Charles Fail music Cyber Sax Did I forget anyone?..with the right set up and MP..that Conn will blow most everything in the world away.. And now for the SML you got...Ive never played one..I have heard some good things! lol
mostly alto guy User ID: 1864304	Dec 9th 4:43 AM Email me about the 26M. mithril60@hotmail.com