Sax on the Web Forum

Keilwerth Saxophones / Keilwerth vs yamaha

Max
User ID: 8882983 Jul 31st 10:55 AM
WHen I was looking for my sax, I tried a keilwerth. It had a nice sound and was quite good. The only problem was the price. it was 200 can $ more than a Yas-23. Are keilwerths better saxes than yamahas? (student of course)

BobD
User ID: 0352454 Jul 31st 11:38 AM
I had a student Keilwerth tenor. It had a nice sound but it was in the shop every 6 months because it would leak bad enough that it wouldn't play. Also, the keywork was huge. It was quite a stretch to reach the low Bb key. I read somewhere on this forum that the alto is also a long stretch to the Bb. I'd go with the YAS-23. Just make sure it's well regulated and leak free.

BobD
User ID: 0352454 Jul 31st 11:41 AM
Also, if you are talking new prices on these horns you might want to consider a vintage like a Buescher Aristocrat or Conn 6m. These are WAY better horns than Yam or JK. www.vintagesax.com has a bunch of these horns. And from what I have read here, Gayle does a fantastic job setting them up.

Quijote
User ID: 1042384 Jul 31st 10:28 PM
<Are Keilwerths better saxes than yamahas?>
Pro models definitely yes: better into.

Bootman
User ID: 1676554 Jul 31st 11:55 PM
There is no comparison in the pro models.

Subtone Sam
User ID: 1432154 Aug 1st 12:32 PM
Yep.

AlFresco
User ID: 0025534 Aug 8th 2:03 PM
I agree. No comparison in the top Yamaha's vs the top JK's. Personally, I dont understand the popularity of the Yamaha with so many top players. Good marketing perhaps, or a lot of pros are being subsidized by Yamaha.

saxodelic
User ID: 1509104 Oct 12th 1:20 AM
Well, both horns are designed for different kinds of playing. I don't know anyone who uses a Keilwerth for legit stuff. They're very specialized horns. Large bore, large bell, big sound. . . they're jazz/rock horns.

The Yamaha horns seem to contend with the Selmer models for the not so hard quality. Yamaha seems to be coming along with their custom tenors, and their custom altos are top notch. I'd get a custom before a VI anytime, but for jazz, I'd want something heavier, like Keilwerth.

stevew
User ID: 0234554 Oct 12th 1:20 PM
Mmm, I think the Yamaha and Keilwerth pro horns are completely different, but many people do prefer the Yamaha. As for the student horns, I'd take the Jap built Yamaha over the Keilwerth ST series.

Bootman
User ID: 7601343 Oct 12th 5:15 PM
A better description would be Vanilla versus all the other flavourings.

phathorn
User ID: 9892733 Oct 12th 5:22 PM
My custom alto is FAR from vanilla thanks....

sinkdraiN
User ID: 0185894 Oct 12th 5:52 PM
Phathorn,
I second that. The custom is an excellent horn. I spent last week hearing an SX90R, selmer III, and a custom alto back to back for hours. The custom is a stunning horn.

Bootman
User ID: 7601343 Oct 12th 6:36 PM
Compare your custom to a Buescher or an old Conn in terms of tone.

Bootman
User ID: 7601343 Oct 12th 6:38 PM
Or a Martin Handcraft.

Randall
User ID: 0178794 Oct 12th 7:23 PM
Or a MK VI....lots of the new Japanese students at Berklee have Customs when they arrive- about three weeks later the bulletin boards are full of "Yamaha Custom for sale" notices.
But I must also add that while I believe that there is NO comparison between a pro Yamaha and a JK (the JK is the winner, easily) there is a consistency issue that Yamaha wins hands down.
So, what to do?
Play several JK's before you decide on one.
I like the NS or the solid copper horns.

Mitch A
User ID: 2226594 Oct 13th 9:53 AM
Boots--- Handcraft alto. I have one (searchlights) that needs a few pads. Every time I think I ought to just sell it and buy a JK or Custom, I pick it up, blow a while and realize what a great l'il horn it is. Gotta get it re-done someday. Husky voice from the old days.

phathorn
User ID: 8262993 Oct 13th 3:17 PM
I have owned my Custom for 12 short years. In that time I've played JK's Mk VIs, Conns, Kings, Martins, etc...not ONE would I trade for my horn. I took at hours at the plant in Grand Rapids picking this horn out. It is simply the best alto I've ever played.

gary
User ID: 1711124 Oct 18th 4:38 PM
"...I'd take the Jap built Yamaha over..."
Just as matter of general info, saying "Jap" is like saying Spick, Dego, or Jungle Bunny.

I'm sure it was said in innocence but...now one knows : ) Thanks.

mat
User ID: 1383404 Oct 19th 8:47 PM
well i have a yas 62 that my parents bought me in 1988 as a step up horn. i have played a bunch of differant horns from selmer to JK and i wouldnt trade my 62 for any of them. the low notes are so easy to play. it's intonation is realy good when regualted. and it has NEVER been to the shop for any thing but pads and fixed a few leaks that where my fault. now get this i let it sit in a case in closet for 5 years. it leaked like a sieve when i tried playing it again after taking that break. the pads where dried up and not seating and i had one bent key, low c, i took it in to my tech guy and it has only had to go back once so far for readjustment.

i do find that it is particular about the mp you put on it. as far as intonation goes. i picked up a bilger mp that sounded great. the only problem was that it threw the horn way out. tune to g and d2 was way way sharp tune d and g2 was way way flat

i have NOT played any of the vintage cons ect. but unless they have that nice clasical tone they can keep them. the only thing i may play other than yas 62 of mine is a hand picked selmer seri 2

Txsaxkat
User ID: 9753653 Nov 9th 6:51 PM
I would buy a vintage as bootman says.Why? Even if for a student they are built like a tank! Dont go down in value and they sound better than any student horn on the market.It is alot better for the student to get his own sound which most pros are still looking for!

Max User ID: 8882983	Jul 31st 10:55 AM WHen I was looking for my sax, I tried a keilwerth. It had a nice sound and was quite good. The only problem was the price. it was 200 can $ more than a Yas-23. Are keilwerths better saxes than yamahas? (student of course)
BobD User ID: 0352454	Jul 31st 11:38 AM I had a student Keilwerth tenor. It had a nice sound but it was in the shop every 6 months because it would leak bad enough that it wouldn't play. Also, the keywork was huge. It was quite a stretch to reach the low Bb key. I read somewhere on this forum that the alto is also a long stretch to the Bb. I'd go with the YAS-23. Just make sure it's well regulated and leak free.
BobD User ID: 0352454	Jul 31st 11:41 AM Also, if you are talking new prices on these horns you might want to consider a vintage like a Buescher Aristocrat or Conn 6m. These are WAY better horns than Yam or JK. www.vintagesax.com has a bunch of these horns. And from what I have read here, Gayle does a fantastic job setting them up.
Quijote User ID: 1042384	Jul 31st 10:28 PM <Are Keilwerths better saxes than yamahas?> Pro models definitely yes: better into.
Bootman User ID: 1676554	Jul 31st 11:55 PM There is no comparison in the pro models.
Subtone Sam User ID: 1432154	Aug 1st 12:32 PM Yep.
AlFresco User ID: 0025534	Aug 8th 2:03 PM I agree. No comparison in the top Yamaha's vs the top JK's. Personally, I dont understand the popularity of the Yamaha with so many top players. Good marketing perhaps, or a lot of pros are being subsidized by Yamaha.
saxodelic User ID: 1509104	Oct 12th 1:20 AM Well, both horns are designed for different kinds of playing. I don't know anyone who uses a Keilwerth for legit stuff. They're very specialized horns. Large bore, large bell, big sound. . . they're jazz/rock horns. The Yamaha horns seem to contend with the Selmer models for the not so hard quality. Yamaha seems to be coming along with their custom tenors, and their custom altos are top notch. I'd get a custom before a VI anytime, but for jazz, I'd want something heavier, like Keilwerth.
stevew User ID: 0234554	Oct 12th 1:20 PM Mmm, I think the Yamaha and Keilwerth pro horns are completely different, but many people do prefer the Yamaha. As for the student horns, I'd take the Jap built Yamaha over the Keilwerth ST series.
Bootman User ID: 7601343	Oct 12th 5:15 PM A better description would be Vanilla versus all the other flavourings.
phathorn User ID: 9892733	Oct 12th 5:22 PM My custom alto is FAR from vanilla thanks....
sinkdraiN User ID: 0185894	Oct 12th 5:52 PM Phathorn, I second that. The custom is an excellent horn. I spent last week hearing an SX90R, selmer III, and a custom alto back to back for hours. The custom is a stunning horn.
Bootman User ID: 7601343	Oct 12th 6:36 PM Compare your custom to a Buescher or an old Conn in terms of tone.
Bootman User ID: 7601343	Oct 12th 6:38 PM Or a Martin Handcraft.
Randall User ID: 0178794	Oct 12th 7:23 PM Or a MK VI....lots of the new Japanese students at Berklee have Customs when they arrive- about three weeks later the bulletin boards are full of "Yamaha Custom for sale" notices. But I must also add that while I believe that there is NO comparison between a pro Yamaha and a JK (the JK is the winner, easily) there is a consistency issue that Yamaha wins hands down. So, what to do? Play several JK's before you decide on one. I like the NS or the solid copper horns.
Mitch A User ID: 2226594	Oct 13th 9:53 AM Boots--- Handcraft alto. I have one (searchlights) that needs a few pads. Every time I think I ought to just sell it and buy a JK or Custom, I pick it up, blow a while and realize what a great l'il horn it is. Gotta get it re-done someday. Husky voice from the old days.
phathorn User ID: 8262993	Oct 13th 3:17 PM I have owned my Custom for 12 short years. In that time I've played JK's Mk VIs, Conns, Kings, Martins, etc...not ONE would I trade for my horn. I took at hours at the plant in Grand Rapids picking this horn out. It is simply the best alto I've ever played.
gary User ID: 1711124	Oct 18th 4:38 PM "...I'd take the Jap built Yamaha over..." Just as matter of general info, saying "Jap" is like saying Spick, Dego, or Jungle Bunny. I'm sure it was said in innocence but...now one knows : ) Thanks.
mat User ID: 1383404	Oct 19th 8:47 PM well i have a yas 62 that my parents bought me in 1988 as a step up horn. i have played a bunch of differant horns from selmer to JK and i wouldnt trade my 62 for any of them. the low notes are so easy to play. it's intonation is realy good when regualted. and it has NEVER been to the shop for any thing but pads and fixed a few leaks that where my fault. now get this i let it sit in a case in closet for 5 years. it leaked like a sieve when i tried playing it again after taking that break. the pads where dried up and not seating and i had one bent key, low c, i took it in to my tech guy and it has only had to go back once so far for readjustment. i do find that it is particular about the mp you put on it. as far as intonation goes. i picked up a bilger mp that sounded great. the only problem was that it threw the horn way out. tune to g and d2 was way way sharp tune d and g2 was way way flat i have NOT played any of the vintage cons ect. but unless they have that nice clasical tone they can keep them. the only thing i may play other than yas 62 of mine is a hand picked selmer seri 2
Txsaxkat User ID: 9753653	Nov 9th 6:51 PM I would buy a vintage as bootman says.Why? Even if for a student they are built like a tank! Dont go down in value and they sound better than any student horn on the market.It is alot better for the student to get his own sound which most pros are still looking for!