Sax on the Web Forum

spiderjames
User ID: 8750183 Jan 9th 8:14 PM
I have a line on a Pair of Boosey and Hawkes Edgeware saxes. The ones I have seen look somewhat like Kohlert saxes and I was told they are Keilworth stencils. How do these stand up to the real keilworths? What are they worth? I have not seen these two examples but from what I was told good cosmetic condition and I assume at least some pad replacement and regulation to be playable.

spiderjames
User ID: 8750183 Jan 10th 5:02 PM
One is a tenor the other alto

spiderjames
User ID: 1139804 Jan 18th 8:08 PM
Got my boosey and hawkes alto today. It looks like a Kohlert regent or Keilwerth bixley. Rolled tone holes, nickel plated keys. Intonation seemed good though I didn't put it on a tuner yet. with a repad I think this horn would scream.What's the story on these. Kohlert? Keilwerth?Is a Kohlert actually a Keilworth? Does it really matter?

hildegarde
User ID: 9384353 Jan 19th 9:36 AM
Edgware is JK.
A Kohlert is not actually a Keilwerth. Kohlert preceded Keilwerth, manufacturing saxes, for many years.
"Does it really matter?" Resale value of Kohlerts is generally lower than JKs and probably equivalent to JK stencils in many cases. Kohlerts and JKs tend to sound more like vintage Conns.

spiderjames
User ID: 1139804 Jan 19th 10:10 AM
I have seen pictures of these edgeware saxes describing them as kohlerts and also as keilwerths. Which is it?

hildegarde
User ID: 9384353 Jan 19th 10:11 AM
Edgware is Keilwerth.

spiderjames
User ID: 1139804 Jan 20th 8:04 AM
Where these designed to be student, int, or pro horns?

stevew
User ID: 8868883 Jan 20th 8:13 AM
Edgware was usually used as B&H's name for their intermediate or step-up line - this certainly applied to clarinets and flutes. Their student saxes used to be called 'Champion'. AFAIK they never made or marketed pro saxophones.

Bo Meyer
User ID: 0060104 Jan 20th 10:59 AM
IMHO the Egdeware was an intermediate saxophone produced by Kohlert only for B&S. Kohlert´s own name for the same saxophone was Bixley. I have compeared many many pictures of these two saxophones, beeing a Kohlert fan. See http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/Kohlert/bixley/tenor/BixleynEdgeware/

These pictures show the simmilarites between the two. A Keilwerth has a very different design, look at the way the connecting rods from the pinky table takes a curve around the saxophone as is on the right side of the saxophone when seen from behind, whereas the Kohlerts have the rods running on the left side.

If the "Egdeware" was a Keilwerth, it should have his initials engraved somewhere. There is another version called the "Fogware", but that is also a Kohlert stencil. Different engraving only.

A "Toneking for" instance is a "true" Keilwerth, and then again the "Roxy" is a mix, the body is buildt by Keilwerth, but all the cups and rods are made by Jörka & Dörfler in Nauheim. But still respecting the rod lay-out of Keilwerth.

But what really matters, is that you are pleased with you saxophone, and it gives you the possibillity to play like you want to play......

Regards from Denmark

Bo

K
User ID: 7789183 Jan 20th 6:47 PM
Got a wild hair up my a@@ and picked up an Edgeware Tenor off ebay for the buy it now price of 375. Seller (lotasax) told me that he'd check the horn and replace a few pads before he ships. Sounds great. What I am looking for is a "vintage" sound that is loud enough for RnB and has the fast Keilworth action. For the price I hope it's not too much of a risk. If it plays anything like a Couf I'll do cartwheels. K

spiderjames
User ID: 0122954 Jan 21st 7:05 PM
so far I am very happy with the sound of my edgeware alto. I believed this was a Kohlert myself becauese of the design. it looks exactly like a Kohlert regent in every respect.the action on it seems pretty fast but I am used to older horns like handcrafts or 30ish conns. I've heard that the Kohlerts had questionable intonation but this edgeware is very good overall. I was toying with the idea of buying that tenor on ebay I guess I waited too late. Let me know how it plays

hildegarde
User ID: 8464923 Jan 22nd 6:08 AM
questionable intonation on a Kohlert is possible if it is either set up incorrectly, damaged, or is one of the later model Asian horns.
Squirrelly intonation is not my experience with vintage Kohlerts.

K
User ID: 7789183 Jan 22nd 2:48 PM
Spider, I don't know if you've had experience with The Martins but how would you characteize the sound and action of this Edgeware tenor vrs a The Martin?? Thanks K

spiderjames
User ID: 0122954 Jan 22nd 9:57 PM
only played older martin handcrafts, conns bueschers and 70's yamahas.The action of the edgeware seems pretty tight and fast. the sound is well balanced, not as bright as a newer horn.

K
User ID: 7789183 Jan 23rd 8:54 AM
Cool, lotasax said he replaced a few pads and shipped tuesday. Should get the horn by next week. (East coast to west coast shipping) I'll record an A/B Mp3 comparison if anybodys interested. K

hildegarde
User ID: 2379774 Jan 23rd 9:05 AM
if anything is awry intonation-wise check the key heights, FWIW.
think dark and rumblyresonant, I hope that is what you were expecting.

SteveZ
User ID: 9238183 Jan 23rd 9:28 AM
rumblyresonant! sounds like an e.e. cummings word.

In Just-
spring when the world is mud-
luscious the little
lame balloonman

whistles far and wee

and eddieandbill come
running from marbles and
piracies and it's
spring

when the world is puddle-wonderful

K
User ID: 7789183 Jan 25th 5:00 PM
Got the Edgeware today and for 375 it is a heck of a tenor. The intonation is on par with my The Martin. The Martin has (to my ears ) better tone and a bigger sound. The Edgeware has very fast action which is great (I was hoping for that when I heard it is a Keilworth clone). The Edgeware's tone has some guts (considering that the pads have no resos at all). It is darker sounding than my The Martin. All in all a great backup horn for the money. The seller described it as having a vintage Conn like tone which as I play it more maybe I discover. I have a min 48 second trial of the horn vrs my The Martin if anyone wants to hear it. I will mention that I am using a guardala studio that I've had less than a week so I'm not dialed in on the piece yet. But Kride@pacbell.net

spiderjames User ID: 8750183	Jan 9th 8:14 PM I have a line on a Pair of Boosey and Hawkes Edgeware saxes. The ones I have seen look somewhat like Kohlert saxes and I was told they are Keilworth stencils. How do these stand up to the real keilworths? What are they worth? I have not seen these two examples but from what I was told good cosmetic condition and I assume at least some pad replacement and regulation to be playable.
spiderjames User ID: 8750183	Jan 10th 5:02 PM One is a tenor the other alto
spiderjames User ID: 1139804	Jan 18th 8:08 PM Got my boosey and hawkes alto today. It looks like a Kohlert regent or Keilwerth bixley. Rolled tone holes, nickel plated keys. Intonation seemed good though I didn't put it on a tuner yet. with a repad I think this horn would scream.What's the story on these. Kohlert? Keilwerth?Is a Kohlert actually a Keilworth? Does it really matter?
hildegarde User ID: 9384353	Jan 19th 9:36 AM Edgware is JK. A Kohlert is not actually a Keilwerth. Kohlert preceded Keilwerth, manufacturing saxes, for many years. "Does it really matter?" Resale value of Kohlerts is generally lower than JKs and probably equivalent to JK stencils in many cases. Kohlerts and JKs tend to sound more like vintage Conns.
spiderjames User ID: 1139804	Jan 19th 10:10 AM I have seen pictures of these edgeware saxes describing them as kohlerts and also as keilwerths. Which is it?
hildegarde User ID: 9384353	Jan 19th 10:11 AM Edgware is Keilwerth.
spiderjames User ID: 1139804	Jan 20th 8:04 AM Where these designed to be student, int, or pro horns?
stevew User ID: 8868883	Jan 20th 8:13 AM Edgware was usually used as B&H's name for their intermediate or step-up line - this certainly applied to clarinets and flutes. Their student saxes used to be called 'Champion'. AFAIK they never made or marketed pro saxophones.
Bo Meyer User ID: 0060104	Jan 20th 10:59 AM IMHO the Egdeware was an intermediate saxophone produced by Kohlert only for B&S. Kohlert´s own name for the same saxophone was Bixley. I have compeared many many pictures of these two saxophones, beeing a Kohlert fan. See http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/Kohlert/bixley/tenor/BixleynEdgeware/ These pictures show the simmilarites between the two. A Keilwerth has a very different design, look at the way the connecting rods from the pinky table takes a curve around the saxophone as is on the right side of the saxophone when seen from behind, whereas the Kohlerts have the rods running on the left side. If the "Egdeware" was a Keilwerth, it should have his initials engraved somewhere. There is another version called the "Fogware", but that is also a Kohlert stencil. Different engraving only. A "Toneking for" instance is a "true" Keilwerth, and then again the "Roxy" is a mix, the body is buildt by Keilwerth, but all the cups and rods are made by Jörka & Dörfler in Nauheim. But still respecting the rod lay-out of Keilwerth. But what really matters, is that you are pleased with you saxophone, and it gives you the possibillity to play like you want to play...... Regards from Denmark Bo
K User ID: 7789183	Jan 20th 6:47 PM Got a wild hair up my a@@ and picked up an Edgeware Tenor off ebay for the buy it now price of 375. Seller (lotasax) told me that he'd check the horn and replace a few pads before he ships. Sounds great. What I am looking for is a "vintage" sound that is loud enough for RnB and has the fast Keilworth action. For the price I hope it's not too much of a risk. If it plays anything like a Couf I'll do cartwheels. K
spiderjames User ID: 0122954	Jan 21st 7:05 PM so far I am very happy with the sound of my edgeware alto. I believed this was a Kohlert myself becauese of the design. it looks exactly like a Kohlert regent in every respect.the action on it seems pretty fast but I am used to older horns like handcrafts or 30ish conns. I've heard that the Kohlerts had questionable intonation but this edgeware is very good overall. I was toying with the idea of buying that tenor on ebay I guess I waited too late. Let me know how it plays
hildegarde User ID: 8464923	Jan 22nd 6:08 AM questionable intonation on a Kohlert is possible if it is either set up incorrectly, damaged, or is one of the later model Asian horns. Squirrelly intonation is not my experience with vintage Kohlerts.
K User ID: 7789183	Jan 22nd 2:48 PM Spider, I don't know if you've had experience with The Martins but how would you characteize the sound and action of this Edgeware tenor vrs a The Martin?? Thanks K
spiderjames User ID: 0122954	Jan 22nd 9:57 PM only played older martin handcrafts, conns bueschers and 70's yamahas.The action of the edgeware seems pretty tight and fast. the sound is well balanced, not as bright as a newer horn.
K User ID: 7789183	Jan 23rd 8:54 AM Cool, lotasax said he replaced a few pads and shipped tuesday. Should get the horn by next week. (East coast to west coast shipping) I'll record an A/B Mp3 comparison if anybodys interested. K
hildegarde User ID: 2379774	Jan 23rd 9:05 AM if anything is awry intonation-wise check the key heights, FWIW. think dark and rumblyresonant, I hope that is what you were expecting.
SteveZ User ID: 9238183	Jan 23rd 9:28 AM rumblyresonant! sounds like an e.e. cummings word. In Just- spring when the world is mud- luscious the little lame balloonman whistles far and wee and eddieandbill come running from marbles and piracies and it's spring when the world is puddle-wonderful
K User ID: 7789183	Jan 25th 5:00 PM Got the Edgeware today and for 375 it is a heck of a tenor. The intonation is on par with my The Martin. The Martin has (to my ears ) better tone and a bigger sound. The Edgeware has very fast action which is great (I was hoping for that when I heard it is a Keilworth clone). The Edgeware's tone has some guts (considering that the pads have no resos at all). It is darker sounding than my The Martin. All in all a great backup horn for the money. The seller described it as having a vintage Conn like tone which as I play it more maybe I discover. I have a min 48 second trial of the horn vrs my The Martin if anyone wants to hear it. I will mention that I am using a guardala studio that I've had less than a week so I'm not dialed in on the piece yet. But Kride@pacbell.net