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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Conn Saxophones / COnn with modern keywork

Next 20 Messages

shazophonic
User ID: 0366544 Aug 8th 5:53 AM
hey guys, know anyone who still does this kind of modification? something like james carter's horn on his cd "conversin'with the elders".

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 Aug 8th 8:29 AM
Guys that worked for Bob Ackerman were doing it. I have not seen him pushing them lately.

paulwl
User ID: 9272753 Aug 8th 9:38 AM
Yes, I think it might have been an attempt to add value to Conns in Bob's inventory, and also to appeal to people not so hip to these horns. Now more players know that the Conn action isn't all that bad.

shazophonic
User ID: 0366544 Aug 8th 9:53 AM
thanks guys. how much does it cost to have these modifications done on a Chu tenor?

paulwl
User ID: 9272753 Aug 8th 10:13 AM
I would guess upwards of $2,000. For that you could get an original Chu set up to perfection by a top specialist that would likely make you forget all thoughts of modern keywork.

shazophonic
User ID: 0366544 Aug 8th 10:40 AM
yeah, u're right. i was just being curious :)
thanks guys.

shazophonic@msn.com

BATMAN
User ID: 0352454 Aug 9th 4:03 AM
or consider the 26/28/30M. The keywork is faster than the 6/10M (though the 6M keywork is already VERY fast) and more ergonomic. The silver keys on the 30M feel absolutely amazing under the hands...they are the right size, feel, and heft and I consider the best designed palm/side keys ever. No risers necessary! The G# cluster also contains the articulated(?) G# just like all modern horns. I also find the Bb to C# transition superior, since it's easier for me to rock my pinky side to side than to slide it down to up.

You can find these horns for around $3000-3500 (less for the altos) for great condition ones. This is much cheaper than getting a Chu or 10M and having them retrofit with new keywork.

gary
User ID: 7803273 Aug 9th 5:51 AM
Batman - is there any signigicant advantage in ergonomics and keywork in modern horns like Keilwerth, Selmer, Guardala etc when contrasted with a Conn 10M? Thanks.

BATMAN
User ID: 0352454 Aug 9th 7:12 AM
I find no SIGNIFICANT advantage. I can play just as fast on these horns, though the 10M G# key seems to want to get stuck to my pinky :) Perhaps if you want to play Bb minor arpeggios, or require that automatic G# (articulated?) really fast, the modern keywork is better suited. But, I can play just about everythinge else as well, if not FASTER on the vintage keywork. But if it really bothers you....get a 30M! As close to Selmer BA style as you can get without actually being Selmer BA style. And the palm/side keys feel better than anything else I've ever played.

BobD
User ID: 0352454 Aug 9th 7:24 AM

I tried some really well setup 10M's when I bought my Mark VI. They all sounded better than the Mark VI's I tried and the palm keys,and left pinky keys were fine but I just couldn't get used to that inline aspect of the keywork. Would have bought one had it not been for that.

BATMAN
User ID: 0352454 Aug 9th 7:25 AM
Oh yeah....and for the most part, it's the SOUND that matters most. If a certain horn gives you a certain sound that you need, then it's quite easy to overcome any percieved technical difficulties. I mean...if Dexter Gordon can play that fast on a 10/30M, then so can you!

BATMAN
User ID: 0352454 Aug 9th 7:27 AM
oh yeah, the inline thing. Well...I learned on a The Martin, so I can switch back and forth easilly. I really loved my MK VI's ergonomics...but my 30M feels just as good, except perhaps for the crappy thumbhook :)

gary
User ID: 7803273 Aug 9th 7:29 AM
Thanks, folks. That ends it as far as I'm concerned. When I get to the point that I know I'm being hindered by the horn and not for lack of practicing, I'll come back to the subject.

In the meantime, I hear the woodshed calling!

danm
User ID: 7538493 Aug 9th 8:10 AM
Gary I started playing tenor 10 years ago with a Conn Chu. Older keywork than the 10M I am sure. I like aspects of the Conn better than my MK VI that I play. I never noticed the inline key think until I heard about it on this board. The keywork on both horns are different but the MK VI in my opinion is not that much better than the Conn. With practice you can fly on all the old Conns, and the sound will blow you away in my opinion.Strange I have noticed that there are many players on this board that play MK VI's and Conn's.Must be a sound thing I would think.

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 Aug 9th 8:24 AM
I play a 60's 10M. Its in-line, but it feels like home. I have somewhat short fingers. I have not had any significant ergonomic problems except with vintage bari and some vintage sopranos. The new ones are generally much more ergonomic.

Mike C
User ID: 9663323 Aug 9th 8:15 PM
Bob D you didn't stick it out long enough.A few weeks and the Conn feels like you have been playing it forever.

mostly alto guy
User ID: 0122954 Aug 10th 2:02 PM
I know you can get used to anything, but I'll have my 6M with Buffet S1 keywork!

jezzball
User ID: 9753653 Aug 10th 3:14 PM
One might one to defer to the playing & recording of the late Sal Nistico, during the 1960s, who seemed to be able to play as fast, or faster tempos than anyone, possibly even Johnny Griffin.

Sal used a 10m all throughout the 60s & into the early 70s & didnt seem to have any trouble with the old Conn keywork. Didnt get in his way at all.

Of course, Sal was no James Carter, I mean, James Carter is a genius---just ask him:)

Tommy Boy
User ID: 2275264 Aug 11th 9:12 PM
I have a 1919 pre-chu Conn, it had a great sound, but alas the keywork was holding me back. After a long search I settled on a Selmer Reference 54. Although the Conn keywork was horrible, the 54 much more ergonomical. I thought about getting a newer Conn, but eventually decided to go brand new instead.

gary
User ID: 9829893 Aug 12th 4:22 AM
Well, the info about Sal Nistico just about says it all. I heard Sal Nistico with Woody's band ca. 1963 and his fingers were killin'!

Next 20 Messages

shazophonic User ID: 0366544	Aug 8th 5:53 AM hey guys, know anyone who still does this kind of modification? something like james carter's horn on his cd "conversin'with the elders".
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	Aug 8th 8:29 AM Guys that worked for Bob Ackerman were doing it. I have not seen him pushing them lately.
paulwl User ID: 9272753	Aug 8th 9:38 AM Yes, I think it might have been an attempt to add value to Conns in Bob's inventory, and also to appeal to people not so hip to these horns. Now more players know that the Conn action isn't all that bad.
shazophonic User ID: 0366544	Aug 8th 9:53 AM thanks guys. how much does it cost to have these modifications done on a Chu tenor?
paulwl User ID: 9272753	Aug 8th 10:13 AM I would guess upwards of $2,000. For that you could get an original Chu set up to perfection by a top specialist that would likely make you forget all thoughts of modern keywork.
shazophonic User ID: 0366544	Aug 8th 10:40 AM yeah, u're right. i was just being curious :) thanks guys. shazophonic@msn.com
BATMAN User ID: 0352454	Aug 9th 4:03 AM or consider the 26/28/30M. The keywork is faster than the 6/10M (though the 6M keywork is already VERY fast) and more ergonomic. The silver keys on the 30M feel absolutely amazing under the hands...they are the right size, feel, and heft and I consider the best designed palm/side keys ever. No risers necessary! The G# cluster also contains the articulated(?) G# just like all modern horns. I also find the Bb to C# transition superior, since it's easier for me to rock my pinky side to side than to slide it down to up. You can find these horns for around $3000-3500 (less for the altos) for great condition ones. This is much cheaper than getting a Chu or 10M and having them retrofit with new keywork.
gary User ID: 7803273	Aug 9th 5:51 AM Batman - is there any signigicant advantage in ergonomics and keywork in modern horns like Keilwerth, Selmer, Guardala etc when contrasted with a Conn 10M? Thanks.
BATMAN User ID: 0352454	Aug 9th 7:12 AM I find no SIGNIFICANT advantage. I can play just as fast on these horns, though the 10M G# key seems to want to get stuck to my pinky :) Perhaps if you want to play Bb minor arpeggios, or require that automatic G# (articulated?) really fast, the modern keywork is better suited. But, I can play just about everythinge else as well, if not FASTER on the vintage keywork. But if it really bothers you....get a 30M! As close to Selmer BA style as you can get without actually being Selmer BA style. And the palm/side keys feel better than anything else I've ever played.
BobD User ID: 0352454	Aug 9th 7:24 AM I tried some really well setup 10M's when I bought my Mark VI. They all sounded better than the Mark VI's I tried and the palm keys,and left pinky keys were fine but I just couldn't get used to that inline aspect of the keywork. Would have bought one had it not been for that.
BATMAN User ID: 0352454	Aug 9th 7:25 AM Oh yeah....and for the most part, it's the SOUND that matters most. If a certain horn gives you a certain sound that you need, then it's quite easy to overcome any percieved technical difficulties. I mean...if Dexter Gordon can play that fast on a 10/30M, then so can you!
BATMAN User ID: 0352454	Aug 9th 7:27 AM oh yeah, the inline thing. Well...I learned on a The Martin, so I can switch back and forth easilly. I really loved my MK VI's ergonomics...but my 30M feels just as good, except perhaps for the crappy thumbhook :)
gary User ID: 7803273	Aug 9th 7:29 AM Thanks, folks. That ends it as far as I'm concerned. When I get to the point that I know I'm being hindered by the horn and not for lack of practicing, I'll come back to the subject. In the meantime, I hear the woodshed calling!
danm User ID: 7538493	Aug 9th 8:10 AM Gary I started playing tenor 10 years ago with a Conn Chu. Older keywork than the 10M I am sure. I like aspects of the Conn better than my MK VI that I play. I never noticed the inline key think until I heard about it on this board. The keywork on both horns are different but the MK VI in my opinion is not that much better than the Conn. With practice you can fly on all the old Conns, and the sound will blow you away in my opinion.Strange I have noticed that there are many players on this board that play MK VI's and Conn's.Must be a sound thing I would think.
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	Aug 9th 8:24 AM I play a 60's 10M. Its in-line, but it feels like home. I have somewhat short fingers. I have not had any significant ergonomic problems except with vintage bari and some vintage sopranos. The new ones are generally much more ergonomic.
Mike C User ID: 9663323	Aug 9th 8:15 PM Bob D you didn't stick it out long enough.A few weeks and the Conn feels like you have been playing it forever.
mostly alto guy User ID: 0122954	Aug 10th 2:02 PM I know you can get used to anything, but I'll have my 6M with Buffet S1 keywork!
jezzball User ID: 9753653	Aug 10th 3:14 PM One might one to defer to the playing & recording of the late Sal Nistico, during the 1960s, who seemed to be able to play as fast, or faster tempos than anyone, possibly even Johnny Griffin. Sal used a 10m all throughout the 60s & into the early 70s & didnt seem to have any trouble with the old Conn keywork. Didnt get in his way at all. Of course, Sal was no James Carter, I mean, James Carter is a genius---just ask him:)
Tommy Boy User ID: 2275264	Aug 11th 9:12 PM I have a 1919 pre-chu Conn, it had a great sound, but alas the keywork was holding me back. After a long search I settled on a Selmer Reference 54. Although the Conn keywork was horrible, the 54 much more ergonomical. I thought about getting a newer Conn, but eventually decided to go brand new instead.
gary User ID: 9829893	Aug 12th 4:22 AM Well, the info about Sal Nistico just about says it all. I heard Sal Nistico with Woody's band ca. 1963 and his fingers were killin'!