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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Conn Saxophones / Vintage Conn Model Names

saxpics
User ID: 9572103 Apr 5th 5:51 PM
One of the most frustrating problems with Conn saxophones is that most of them don't have model names.

I've been doing extensive research on all things Conn for the last two months, and this is what I've got for model names, in more-or-less the order of the model's appearance. I ask for comment and discussion. Do note that this is NOT exactly the same as some of the models Mr. Goodson mentions in his article. This is because some date ranges are in dispute:

* 1888 to 1895 "Worcester" models. These horns are engraved "C.G. Conn, Worcester Mass.", thus the invented name.

* s/n 1 to 41xxx Wonder models. Official model name from Conn. Post-1915 horns have slightly different engraving (i.e. "C.G. Conn, Ltd."), but have similar manufacture to those before 1915. There may have been a seperate model called "Liberty" produced during these years, as well.

* September 1910 to late 1912 New Invention models. Official model name from Conn.

* s/n 41xxx to 235xxx New Wonder models. "New Wonder" is an official model name from Conn. (Upcoming on my website, I break these horns down into two series, as post-143xxx horns are significantly different from those before)

* New Wonder Artist's Special models. An official PLATING type for NW horns: the heavily engraved, gold-plated version of the New Wonder horns (occassionally referred to as "finish 00"). Note also that the elaborate engraving is similar to the New Wonder Victor model brasswinds. "Perfected Wonder", a model name I had used in the past, actually refers to Conn's "perfect" cornets. Please check out www.vintagecornets.com.

* New Wonder Virtuoso Deluxe models. An official PLATING name from Conn: the heavily engraved, gold-plated New Wonder horns that boasted additional pearl keytouches (occasionally referred to as "finish 000").

* 22M F Mezzo Soprano and 24M Conn-O-Sax. Both of these are Conn's official model names. These horns are officially New Wonder models (they were produced in 1928 and 1929).

* s/n 235xxx to 262xxx "New Wonder Transitional" models. These horns are officially referred to by Conn with only a model number (e.g. "6M" for an alto), but during this period of manufacture, both split- and same-side bell key horns were available, and they have a variety of engraving differences from later 6M models, so this is an invented, albeit quite common, name.

* post s/n 262xxx 4/6/8/10/(11)/12/14M "Naked Lady" models. These are commonly referred to as "Naked Lady" horns, after the stylized portrait of a lady in a pentagon engraved on the bell of these horns, and are called "Artist" models in Conn catalogs after the introduction of the 14/16M "Shooting Star" horns (late 1950's). They all have same-side bell keys, except for the 4M curved soprano and the 8M C Melody tenor (which are essentially New Wonder horns with different engraving).

* 26M and 30M Connqueror. Official model name from Conn. The model name is engraved on the bell. These are occasionally referred to as "Naked Lady" horns, as the engraving is very similar, but these horns have one major difference from the 6M and 10M: the addition of a variety of additional fine-tuning screws to the upper and lower stacks.

* 28M Connstellation. Official model name from Conn. This is the Santy Runyon inspired horn with the funky (and patented) plastic keyguard.

* 16/18M "Shooting Star" models. These are the alto and tenor models that were introduced in the late 1950's that used a variation of the Pan American design. The common-use name comes from the starburst engraving on these horn's bell. Do not confuse these with later 6/10M horns from Nogales.

* 94/108/110M "DJH Modified" models. The model NUMBERS are officially from Conn, but "DJH Modified" is what is engraved on the bell. These horns are Keilwerth models sold by Conn and "specially modified" (only the engraving is different, IMHO) by Daniel Henkin in the 1980's.

Anyhow, if any of y'all have any info to REFUTE the above data -- or have catalogs, advertisements, etc., please discuss here or drop me a line at saxpics@hotmail.com.

I will expand on the above info on my website. It's still gonna be a while: I've recently found a bunch of Conn patent drawings I want to incorporate.

Thanks, and sorry for the long post!
Pete

MarkH
User ID: 0025534 Apr 6th 2:49 AM
Where does the Portrait model fit in? From what I have figured out the portrait model came with the 00 finish and the Artist model came with the 000 finish. The plating was the same but the artist had more engraving and more pearls.

saxpics
User ID: 0046004 Apr 6th 11:09 AM
"Portrait model" is not an official name. The official name from Conn -- and this just refers to the finish -- is "Artist's Special" (finish 00). The "Virtuoso Deluxe" is finish 000, the horn with the additional pearl keytouches. Both are mentioned above.

These names were provided by bill kasper, who got them from a catalog and passed them on to me.

In other words, don't use the names from my website, yet. They haven't been updated.

RAY
User ID: 1181464 Apr 7th 12:25 PM
HEY SAXPICS, IWAS TELLING YOU ABOUT MY CONN. PAN AMERICAN, YOU TOLD ME IT WAS A STUDENT BAND HORN, AND NOT GOOD TO LEARN ON, WHAT IF I GOT NEW PADS AND WHAT EVER ELSE I NEEDED FOR THE HORN, WOULD IT BE WORTH IT, I GOT RIPPED OF AND NOW I HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.

StevenW
User ID: 8952923 Apr 7th 7:11 PM
Nothing wrong with a Pan American sax actually!

Oftentimes they are good players and appreciated by their owners!

Good Luck!

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 Apr 9th 9:20 AM
My late 60's 10M was sold to me as a "Artist" model. The 16M was called a "Director" model at that time. Sorry, I have no documentation.

saxpics
User ID: 9140763 Apr 10th 9:09 PM
Good enough for me, Mojo.

RAY, as a horn for a beginner -- and you mention in the e-mail you sent me that you have about 6 months' experience -- the Pan American isn't a good deal.

(And remember: the PA is not exactly a "student" horn. It was marketed as "Conn's Marching Band Instrument" line.)

Additionally, the PA is not exactly a valuable instrument. I think you could easily spend more money on a complete overhaul than what the horn is worth. Getting the horn in "playing condition" might be inexpensive, but "playing condition" is not "good working condition".

I stick by my suggestion: if you'd like to learn on a good horn, lease a Yamaha or Keilwerth from your local music store.

... Oh. And get the caps lock key fixed on your computer :)

George Briscoe
User ID: 8151383 Apr 11th 10:48 PM
I remember seeing the Conn "Madeline" in a movie once.

No, wait a minute... the movie was "Blazing Saddles" and it was Madeline Kahn...

Never mind! ;^)>

saxpics User ID: 9572103	Apr 5th 5:51 PM One of the most frustrating problems with Conn saxophones is that most of them don't have model names. I've been doing extensive research on all things Conn for the last two months, and this is what I've got for model names, in more-or-less the order of the model's appearance. I ask for comment and discussion. Do note that this is NOT exactly the same as some of the models Mr. Goodson mentions in his article. This is because some date ranges are in dispute: * 1888 to 1895 "Worcester" models. These horns are engraved "C.G. Conn, Worcester Mass.", thus the invented name. * s/n 1 to 41xxx Wonder models. Official model name from Conn. Post-1915 horns have slightly different engraving (i.e. "C.G. Conn, Ltd."), but have similar manufacture to those before 1915. There may have been a seperate model called "Liberty" produced during these years, as well. * September 1910 to late 1912 New Invention models. Official model name from Conn. * s/n 41xxx to 235xxx New Wonder models. "New Wonder" is an official model name from Conn. (Upcoming on my website, I break these horns down into two series, as post-143xxx horns are significantly different from those before) * New Wonder Artist's Special models. An official PLATING type for NW horns: the heavily engraved, gold-plated version of the New Wonder horns (occassionally referred to as "finish 00"). Note also that the elaborate engraving is similar to the New Wonder Victor model brasswinds. "Perfected Wonder", a model name I had used in the past, actually refers to Conn's "perfect" cornets. Please check out www.vintagecornets.com. * New Wonder Virtuoso Deluxe models. An official PLATING name from Conn: the heavily engraved, gold-plated New Wonder horns that boasted additional pearl keytouches (occasionally referred to as "finish 000"). * 22M F Mezzo Soprano and 24M Conn-O-Sax. Both of these are Conn's official model names. These horns are officially New Wonder models (they were produced in 1928 and 1929). * s/n 235xxx to 262xxx "New Wonder Transitional" models. These horns are officially referred to by Conn with only a model number (e.g. "6M" for an alto), but during this period of manufacture, both split- and same-side bell key horns were available, and they have a variety of engraving differences from later 6M models, so this is an invented, albeit quite common, name. * post s/n 262xxx 4/6/8/10/(11)/12/14M "Naked Lady" models. These are commonly referred to as "Naked Lady" horns, after the stylized portrait of a lady in a pentagon engraved on the bell of these horns, and are called "Artist" models in Conn catalogs after the introduction of the 14/16M "Shooting Star" horns (late 1950's). They all have same-side bell keys, except for the 4M curved soprano and the 8M C Melody tenor (which are essentially New Wonder horns with different engraving). * 26M and 30M Connqueror. Official model name from Conn. The model name is engraved on the bell. These are occasionally referred to as "Naked Lady" horns, as the engraving is very similar, but these horns have one major difference from the 6M and 10M: the addition of a variety of additional fine-tuning screws to the upper and lower stacks. * 28M Connstellation. Official model name from Conn. This is the Santy Runyon inspired horn with the funky (and patented) plastic keyguard. * 16/18M "Shooting Star" models. These are the alto and tenor models that were introduced in the late 1950's that used a variation of the Pan American design. The common-use name comes from the starburst engraving on these horn's bell. Do not confuse these with later 6/10M horns from Nogales. * 94/108/110M "DJH Modified" models. The model NUMBERS are officially from Conn, but "DJH Modified" is what is engraved on the bell. These horns are Keilwerth models sold by Conn and "specially modified" (only the engraving is different, IMHO) by Daniel Henkin in the 1980's. Anyhow, if any of y'all have any info to REFUTE the above data -- or have catalogs, advertisements, etc., please discuss here or drop me a line at saxpics@hotmail.com. I will expand on the above info on my website. It's still gonna be a while: I've recently found a bunch of Conn patent drawings I want to incorporate. Thanks, and sorry for the long post! Pete
MarkH User ID: 0025534	Apr 6th 2:49 AM Where does the Portrait model fit in? From what I have figured out the portrait model came with the 00 finish and the Artist model came with the 000 finish. The plating was the same but the artist had more engraving and more pearls.
saxpics User ID: 0046004	Apr 6th 11:09 AM "Portrait model" is not an official name. The official name from Conn -- and this just refers to the finish -- is "Artist's Special" (finish 00). The "Virtuoso Deluxe" is finish 000, the horn with the additional pearl keytouches. Both are mentioned above. These names were provided by bill kasper, who got them from a catalog and passed them on to me. In other words, don't use the names from my website, yet. They haven't been updated.
RAY User ID: 1181464	Apr 7th 12:25 PM HEY SAXPICS, IWAS TELLING YOU ABOUT MY CONN. PAN AMERICAN, YOU TOLD ME IT WAS A STUDENT BAND HORN, AND NOT GOOD TO LEARN ON, WHAT IF I GOT NEW PADS AND WHAT EVER ELSE I NEEDED FOR THE HORN, WOULD IT BE WORTH IT, I GOT RIPPED OF AND NOW I HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.
StevenW User ID: 8952923	Apr 7th 7:11 PM Nothing wrong with a Pan American sax actually! Oftentimes they are good players and appreciated by their owners! Good Luck!
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	Apr 9th 9:20 AM My late 60's 10M was sold to me as a "Artist" model. The 16M was called a "Director" model at that time. Sorry, I have no documentation.
saxpics User ID: 9140763	Apr 10th 9:09 PM Good enough for me, Mojo. RAY, as a horn for a beginner -- and you mention in the e-mail you sent me that you have about 6 months' experience -- the Pan American isn't a good deal. (And remember: the PA is not exactly a "student" horn. It was marketed as "Conn's Marching Band Instrument" line.) Additionally, the PA is not exactly a valuable instrument. I think you could easily spend more money on a complete overhaul than what the horn is worth. Getting the horn in "playing condition" might be inexpensive, but "playing condition" is not "good working condition". I stick by my suggestion: if you'd like to learn on a good horn, lease a Yamaha or Keilwerth from your local music store. ... Oh. And get the caps lock key fixed on your computer :)
George Briscoe User ID: 8151383	Apr 11th 10:48 PM I remember seeing the Conn "Madeline" in a movie once. No, wait a minute... the movie was "Blazing Saddles" and it was Madeline Kahn... Never mind! ;^)>