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Sax on the Web Forum / Conn Saxophones / 16M Adjustments and Intonation

zadu
User ID: 1056474 Jan 25th 5:51 PM
I'm mostly an alto player but lately have been playing more tenor and really like it. Over the last few months my 16M has been improved by getting a couple of dents smoothed out of the neck and getting the key heights to where it is easier to play in tune, and not be too stuffy. The overall sound is great especially for the beer tent/bar stuff, it's a good resonant horn with a big bottom, and I don't have too worry too much about the horn getting ripped-it looks pretty rough. There is a major problem for me to play the palm key notes up to pitch, they have to be lipped up to the max that I can do, and they're still too flat. The key heights for the palm keys look like they are plenty high, but I don't have any real specification to go by. Altissimo is unresponsive and thin too. I'm looking for a smaller chambered mouthpiece than my HR Link 'cause I think that it may help sharpen the short tube notes(I hope).
If any of you have some suggestions of any further adjustments or such(Like a 30M when i win the powerball-LOL) that might help fix this horn I'd appreciate it.

Bill
User ID: 8959213 Jan 25th 7:20 PM
My '65 16M plays up to high F in tune and with out any problems using several different mpcs. I like the metal Otto Link 6* STM most of all. Interestingly enough using the same reed, mpc and neck on my '51 10M, high F is a little flat and requires more lip-up to get into proper tune. The palm keys seem to be more erratic than other notes on saxes. Like you suspect, a smaller chamber mpc may clear up the issue. I just wonder if the size of the tone holes might be a little small. Perhaps just a slight increase in the tone hole size might clear up the problem too. I am a novice player and have trouble with high F#; so I can't report on Altissimo performance.

Mike W
User ID: 2797824 Jan 25th 10:06 PM
I learned on a Conn 16M made in 1957. I even played it professionally for a while. I used it on a number of recording sessions in Nashville in the very early 70s. Got a lot of comments on my great tone and intonation (maybe all those folks had ever heard was a Selmer?). 16m's will flat play but it helps to really put the air through the horn. I suspect if you play any horn long enough, the intonation problems start to go away because you compensate. My 16m justs loves a brilhart levelair 5* (and rocks with dukoffs as well). I guess I should get that horn rebuilt someday. I play a super20 now. Better keywork and a similar tone.

zadu
User ID: 1056474 Jan 27th 9:48 PM
Thanks for the replies, they give me hope that with more time on this horn I'll be able to get better adjusted to it. I got to use a Rico plastic mouthpiece with a big curved baffel last Saturday, it played as well in tune as my Link, but more responsive for altiss' and wide interval changes/octaves, and not as full down low. I think that I'll still looking for a different mouthpiece.

hotsax
User ID: 1237224 Jan 30th 10:56 PM
I agree with Mike W. I learned on a '66 16M and also played it several years professionally.And it does have the "balls" for the rock/blues stuff.You might want to beef up your reed about a 1/2 strength.My palm key E played a little flat too, but I learned to use the OK front F w/LH 3 & 4 fingering and got it right in tune everytime.If you are not use to this fingering it will be strange to begin with but with a little practice you will learne to leave the palm key fingerings alone.Good Luck!!!!

zadu
User ID: 1056474 Jan 31st 5:53 PM
Thanks hotsax, using that g# pinky key brings the E (and F a little) up nicely. I never even thought of it!

zadu User ID: 1056474	Jan 25th 5:51 PM I'm mostly an alto player but lately have been playing more tenor and really like it. Over the last few months my 16M has been improved by getting a couple of dents smoothed out of the neck and getting the key heights to where it is easier to play in tune, and not be too stuffy. The overall sound is great especially for the beer tent/bar stuff, it's a good resonant horn with a big bottom, and I don't have too worry too much about the horn getting ripped-it looks pretty rough. There is a major problem for me to play the palm key notes up to pitch, they have to be lipped up to the max that I can do, and they're still too flat. The key heights for the palm keys look like they are plenty high, but I don't have any real specification to go by. Altissimo is unresponsive and thin too. I'm looking for a smaller chambered mouthpiece than my HR Link 'cause I think that it may help sharpen the short tube notes(I hope). If any of you have some suggestions of any further adjustments or such(Like a 30M when i win the powerball-LOL) that might help fix this horn I'd appreciate it.
Bill User ID: 8959213	Jan 25th 7:20 PM My '65 16M plays up to high F in tune and with out any problems using several different mpcs. I like the metal Otto Link 6* STM most of all. Interestingly enough using the same reed, mpc and neck on my '51 10M, high F is a little flat and requires more lip-up to get into proper tune. The palm keys seem to be more erratic than other notes on saxes. Like you suspect, a smaller chamber mpc may clear up the issue. I just wonder if the size of the tone holes might be a little small. Perhaps just a slight increase in the tone hole size might clear up the problem too. I am a novice player and have trouble with high F#; so I can't report on Altissimo performance.
Mike W User ID: 2797824	Jan 25th 10:06 PM I learned on a Conn 16M made in 1957. I even played it professionally for a while. I used it on a number of recording sessions in Nashville in the very early 70s. Got a lot of comments on my great tone and intonation (maybe all those folks had ever heard was a Selmer?). 16m's will flat play but it helps to really put the air through the horn. I suspect if you play any horn long enough, the intonation problems start to go away because you compensate. My 16m justs loves a brilhart levelair 5* (and rocks with dukoffs as well). I guess I should get that horn rebuilt someday. I play a super20 now. Better keywork and a similar tone.
zadu User ID: 1056474	Jan 27th 9:48 PM Thanks for the replies, they give me hope that with more time on this horn I'll be able to get better adjusted to it. I got to use a Rico plastic mouthpiece with a big curved baffel last Saturday, it played as well in tune as my Link, but more responsive for altiss' and wide interval changes/octaves, and not as full down low. I think that I'll still looking for a different mouthpiece.
hotsax User ID: 1237224	Jan 30th 10:56 PM I agree with Mike W. I learned on a '66 16M and also played it several years professionally.And it does have the "balls" for the rock/blues stuff.You might want to beef up your reed about a 1/2 strength.My palm key E played a little flat too, but I learned to use the OK front F w/LH 3 & 4 fingering and got it right in tune everytime.If you are not use to this fingering it will be strange to begin with but with a little practice you will learne to leave the palm key fingerings alone.Good Luck!!!!
zadu User ID: 1056474	Jan 31st 5:53 PM Thanks hotsax, using that g# pinky key brings the E (and F a little) up nicely. I never even thought of it!