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Sax on the Web Archive / Buffet Archive / Buffet saxophones

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Ben
User ID: 9308123 Nov 27th 11:09 PM
Is Buffet still making saxophones? I'm intrigued by the S-3 Prestige (all copper) line of saxophones. Is that still available? But I know Buffet produced a non-copper version of these saxophones. Do they still and what is it called? S-1? Or has the S-1 been discontinued? Was there ever an S-2?

Thanks in advance.

Ben

kelly
User ID: 0631424 Nov 28th 9:48 AM
Yes, Buffet still makes saxophones, and they have a website

http://www.boosey.com/Instruments/Buffet/FrameBuffet.htm

The S-3 is their current pro horn, but be aware that it is tuned to A=442 Hz, and intended for European classical work.

The S-1 is not made anymore, and it's successor was not as well-received.

OnyxSax
User ID: 9683713 Nov 28th 7:01 PM
I think Buffet stopped selling horns here when Boosey & Hawkes, Buffet's parent company, acquired Keilwerth. Why should B&H have two products that compete against each other?

Vintage Buffets are the unsung heroes of the vintage sax world. They were not produced in the kind of numbers like their Selmer counterparts. However, they are great sounding horns. Even on the older vintage horns, the keywork is suprisingly light. If you can find one, I'd recommend them highly.

You have to watch for "Buffet Evette", though. That is the equivalent of a "Selmer Bundy". They are good student horns, but they are only student horns. Don't get suckered into paying pro model prices for a student horn.

stevew
User ID: 7928263 Nov 29th 4:40 AM
Earlier Buffets had 'Evette Schaeffer' on them, and are the genuine French article. I am awaiting delivery of a 1935 tenor from that era...

Oh yes and there is another mint S1 alto on ebay at the moment.

billmecca
User ID: 2372774 Nov 29th 2:28 PM
Does anyone know if silverplate was an original option on the SDA's?

Steve Goodson
User ID: 1271794 Nov 29th 2:42 PM
Silver plate was indeed available on SDA horns. I've got one!

Prince
User ID: 0136334 Dec 1st 8:40 PM
S2 Buffets are basically SX90 Julius Keilwerths, but with smaller bell diameter.
S3 are made in Germany (at JK factory). They do bronze body, brass body and special order silver plated. The 442Hz tunning is not a big problem. I calibrate my tunner to do A=442Hz. So, my band do.

Boosey & Hawk class Buffet saxophones in classical market, and JK in Jazz. However, they both could be played in any kind of music.

Lost Lamb
User ID: 0331974 Dec 1st 9:48 PM
US bands would find A=442 hz to be a problem, as it is "high pitch".
Since Boosey and Hawkes are now on the auction block, it would be difficult to project what they will class Buffet as, in the future.

stevew
User ID: 3584464 Dec 2nd 8:55 AM
The old high pitch horns were 457 or something, I do not believe anyone could hear 2Hz difference at 440, or rather that any player could accurately hit every note on the sax to within that tolerance.

amasax
User ID: 0568574 Dec 2nd 9:46 AM
problem w/442 pitch is not just the 2Hz difference(which, btw, IS noticeable if you have a develped sense of relative pitch), but that it throws the horn out of tune with itself if you try to tune to A=440. To tune this way you have to pull out a bit, which in turn sets the horn up to play out of tune with itself. If you leave the horn in turn w/itself, then you'll play sharp to the rest of a properly tuned ensemble. However, since most amateur(and way too many pro) groups play sharp(sharpest pitch WINS!), then in fact, you might not notice much...could be problem with electronic instruments(typicaly combo stuff, etc.).

LL
User ID: 0331974 Dec 2nd 10:17 AM
lol so true about the "sharpest pitch wins" comment 8~D
Our directors are brutally particular about tuning, so I totally agree with your first three sentences.

MBushaw
User ID: 8179663 Dec 3rd 11:12 AM
amasax, the difference between 440 and 442 is two 'beats' per second. On alto A440 is F2. So for the majority of the horn we are talking less than that. For the common tuning note of concert Bb it would be about one 'beat' per second. Less than one half of one percent. If you can tell pitches that are that close, unless they are played unison, you might as well say you have perfect pitch!
But I do agree that many lead players play sharp to stand out.

Prince
User ID: 0136334 Dec 3rd 1:42 PM
The most of electronic instruments such as, keyboards could be calibrated the tunning too. I have well develop relative pitch for sure. So, I don't find any problem to tune my sax and band at 442Hz at all. The thing you had to do first is developing your ears and your embrochure. None of saxophone known to human plays perfectly in tune, but there are some techniques that correct that problem. Mouthpiece is one of the most important elements that affect to the pitch too. Same sax but different mouthpieces could make a lot of change not only in term of tone, but also in term of pitch. The monthpiece which has 'wrong' size and shape chamber will cause turbulance in the chamber that chokes the air stream and also alters the pitch.

I play sax in both hot and cold countries. With the same sax, in cold country, I need push in the mouthpiece much more than when I play in hot country. The tempature is also the very important factor that alters the pitch.

By the way, my band has a Vibraphone, and it is tunned at A=442Hz. Absolutely no way to change, except order the new one that tunned in 440Hz. I don't think that my Vibist will change his bloody expensive instrument. Also, I don't want to fire him.

Prince
User ID: 0136334 Dec 3rd 1:52 PM
Again, the S3 had been classed as the instument for classical players before the company had been changed the hand, at least 2 years ago.

The 'bands' that tune their instruments at A=442Hz as I can remember (tell me if any of you play in these orchestras) are:
Boston Philharmonic
Cincinnati Philharmonic
New York Philharmonic and so many of other US 'bands'. In Europe, some band tune at A=438-439hz for darker tone color.

Ben
User ID: 1934244 Dec 5th 1:04 PM
I just won the auction for the 1981 Buffet S1 for $1500. It looked to be in immaculate condition. Was this a fair price? I can't wait to get it. Can anyone tell me if the S1's were tuned to A=440?

kelly
User ID: 0631424 Dec 5th 1:56 PM
From a business persepctive: Looks like a good deal especially if it doesn't need a wholesale change of pads and regulation soon (I always assume a vintage horn needs an overhaul until I have evidence to the contrary). Now my preachy side emerges: But really, I wouldn't worry about the money unless you are using the horn as a financial investment tool. If it gives you the sound you are looking for, and fits your criteria for playability, then only you know if the finincial sacrifice is outweighed by the satisfaction that the horn brings to you.

MBushaw
User ID: 1314254 Dec 5th 8:57 PM
Ben, I believe all S1's were 440.

Prince
User ID: 7148723 Dec 6th 1:44 PM
As Kelly said, if the sax gives what you look for, then the price does not matter. Anyway, here is another thought on very business side.

Based on Steve' s saxophone blue book. The price for a decent condition S1 is $2100. I've been watching that S1 you won too. It does look really nice on the pictures.

By the way, this sax cost you $1500 plus the maximum shipping charge which is about $75. So it became $1575. In case that it needs to be overhaul which approxmately is $450-$500 (at www.justsaxes.com). Then the total cost become $2025-2075. Well, it is still lower than the blue book says, but most of all you've got one of the best made sax in the world which is not really easy to get one.

Do enjoy it!

Ben
User ID: 9308123 Dec 6th 2:13 PM
Yeah, I think I rally lucked out on this horn.

The seller only charged $40 for insured AIR shipping and only $22 for insured ground. I opted for the AIR being how cheap that was relatively (he could've charged a lot more).

I was especially interested because according to the seller everything on the horn is original, original pads, cork, etc. The seller wasn't the owner but was selling it for an estate. It looks like a horn that's hardly been played. It's in need of a serious player.

If it needs any work, my old sax teacher is a repairman and on top of that was a Buffet clinician for a long time. He himself plays a Buffet Prestige so he knows these horns inside out.

kelly
User ID: 0631424 Dec 6th 2:21 PM
Ben, I was watching that S1 too, sounds like a nice find. What part of the country is your teacher/repairman located in? I've got a very nice 1970 SDA alto that, although it plays great now, I'd love to have regulated and repadded by someone who really knows them.

Next 20 Messages

Ben User ID: 9308123	Nov 27th 11:09 PM Is Buffet still making saxophones? I'm intrigued by the S-3 Prestige (all copper) line of saxophones. Is that still available? But I know Buffet produced a non-copper version of these saxophones. Do they still and what is it called? S-1? Or has the S-1 been discontinued? Was there ever an S-2? Thanks in advance. Ben
kelly User ID: 0631424	Nov 28th 9:48 AM Yes, Buffet still makes saxophones, and they have a website http://www.boosey.com/Instruments/Buffet/FrameBuffet.htm The S-3 is their current pro horn, but be aware that it is tuned to A=442 Hz, and intended for European classical work. The S-1 is not made anymore, and it's successor was not as well-received.
OnyxSax User ID: 9683713	Nov 28th 7:01 PM I think Buffet stopped selling horns here when Boosey & Hawkes, Buffet's parent company, acquired Keilwerth. Why should B&H have two products that compete against each other? Vintage Buffets are the unsung heroes of the vintage sax world. They were not produced in the kind of numbers like their Selmer counterparts. However, they are great sounding horns. Even on the older vintage horns, the keywork is suprisingly light. If you can find one, I'd recommend them highly. You have to watch for "Buffet Evette", though. That is the equivalent of a "Selmer Bundy". They are good student horns, but they are only student horns. Don't get suckered into paying pro model prices for a student horn.
stevew User ID: 7928263	Nov 29th 4:40 AM Earlier Buffets had 'Evette Schaeffer' on them, and are the genuine French article. I am awaiting delivery of a 1935 tenor from that era... Oh yes and there is another mint S1 alto on ebay at the moment.
billmecca User ID: 2372774	Nov 29th 2:28 PM Does anyone know if silverplate was an original option on the SDA's?
Steve Goodson User ID: 1271794	Nov 29th 2:42 PM Silver plate was indeed available on SDA horns. I've got one!
Prince User ID: 0136334	Dec 1st 8:40 PM S2 Buffets are basically SX90 Julius Keilwerths, but with smaller bell diameter. S3 are made in Germany (at JK factory). They do bronze body, brass body and special order silver plated. The 442Hz tunning is not a big problem. I calibrate my tunner to do A=442Hz. So, my band do. Boosey & Hawk class Buffet saxophones in classical market, and JK in Jazz. However, they both could be played in any kind of music.
Lost Lamb User ID: 0331974	Dec 1st 9:48 PM US bands would find A=442 hz to be a problem, as it is "high pitch". Since Boosey and Hawkes are now on the auction block, it would be difficult to project what they will class Buffet as, in the future.
stevew User ID: 3584464	Dec 2nd 8:55 AM The old high pitch horns were 457 or something, I do not believe anyone could hear 2Hz difference at 440, or rather that any player could accurately hit every note on the sax to within that tolerance.
amasax User ID: 0568574	Dec 2nd 9:46 AM problem w/442 pitch is not just the 2Hz difference(which, btw, IS noticeable if you have a develped sense of relative pitch), but that it throws the horn out of tune with itself if you try to tune to A=440. To tune this way you have to pull out a bit, which in turn sets the horn up to play out of tune with itself. If you leave the horn in turn w/itself, then you'll play sharp to the rest of a properly tuned ensemble. However, since most amateur(and way too many pro) groups play sharp(sharpest pitch WINS!), then in fact, you might not notice much...could be problem with electronic instruments(typicaly combo stuff, etc.).
LL User ID: 0331974	Dec 2nd 10:17 AM lol so true about the "sharpest pitch wins" comment 8~D Our directors are brutally particular about tuning, so I totally agree with your first three sentences.
MBushaw User ID: 8179663	Dec 3rd 11:12 AM amasax, the difference between 440 and 442 is two 'beats' per second. On alto A440 is F2. So for the majority of the horn we are talking less than that. For the common tuning note of concert Bb it would be about one 'beat' per second. Less than one half of one percent. If you can tell pitches that are that close, unless they are played unison, you might as well say you have perfect pitch! But I do agree that many lead players play sharp to stand out.
Prince User ID: 0136334	Dec 3rd 1:42 PM The most of electronic instruments such as, keyboards could be calibrated the tunning too. I have well develop relative pitch for sure. So, I don't find any problem to tune my sax and band at 442Hz at all. The thing you had to do first is developing your ears and your embrochure. None of saxophone known to human plays perfectly in tune, but there are some techniques that correct that problem. Mouthpiece is one of the most important elements that affect to the pitch too. Same sax but different mouthpieces could make a lot of change not only in term of tone, but also in term of pitch. The monthpiece which has 'wrong' size and shape chamber will cause turbulance in the chamber that chokes the air stream and also alters the pitch. I play sax in both hot and cold countries. With the same sax, in cold country, I need push in the mouthpiece much more than when I play in hot country. The tempature is also the very important factor that alters the pitch. By the way, my band has a Vibraphone, and it is tunned at A=442Hz. Absolutely no way to change, except order the new one that tunned in 440Hz. I don't think that my Vibist will change his bloody expensive instrument. Also, I don't want to fire him.
Prince User ID: 0136334	Dec 3rd 1:52 PM Again, the S3 had been classed as the instument for classical players before the company had been changed the hand, at least 2 years ago. The 'bands' that tune their instruments at A=442Hz as I can remember (tell me if any of you play in these orchestras) are: Boston Philharmonic Cincinnati Philharmonic New York Philharmonic and so many of other US 'bands'. In Europe, some band tune at A=438-439hz for darker tone color.
Ben User ID: 1934244	Dec 5th 1:04 PM I just won the auction for the 1981 Buffet S1 for $1500. It looked to be in immaculate condition. Was this a fair price? I can't wait to get it. Can anyone tell me if the S1's were tuned to A=440?
kelly User ID: 0631424	Dec 5th 1:56 PM From a business persepctive: Looks like a good deal especially if it doesn't need a wholesale change of pads and regulation soon (I always assume a vintage horn needs an overhaul until I have evidence to the contrary). Now my preachy side emerges: But really, I wouldn't worry about the money unless you are using the horn as a financial investment tool. If it gives you the sound you are looking for, and fits your criteria for playability, then only you know if the finincial sacrifice is outweighed by the satisfaction that the horn brings to you.
MBushaw User ID: 1314254	Dec 5th 8:57 PM Ben, I believe all S1's were 440.
Prince User ID: 7148723	Dec 6th 1:44 PM As Kelly said, if the sax gives what you look for, then the price does not matter. Anyway, here is another thought on very business side. Based on Steve' s saxophone blue book. The price for a decent condition S1 is $2100. I've been watching that S1 you won too. It does look really nice on the pictures. By the way, this sax cost you $1500 plus the maximum shipping charge which is about $75. So it became $1575. In case that it needs to be overhaul which approxmately is $450-$500 (at www.justsaxes.com). Then the total cost become $2025-2075. Well, it is still lower than the blue book says, but most of all you've got one of the best made sax in the world which is not really easy to get one. Do enjoy it!
Ben User ID: 9308123	Dec 6th 2:13 PM Yeah, I think I rally lucked out on this horn. The seller only charged $40 for insured AIR shipping and only $22 for insured ground. I opted for the AIR being how cheap that was relatively (he could've charged a lot more). I was especially interested because according to the seller everything on the horn is original, original pads, cork, etc. The seller wasn't the owner but was selling it for an estate. It looks like a horn that's hardly been played. It's in need of a serious player. If it needs any work, my old sax teacher is a repairman and on top of that was a Buffet clinician for a long time. He himself plays a Buffet Prestige so he knows these horns inside out.
kelly User ID: 0631424	Dec 6th 2:21 PM Ben, I was watching that S1 too, sounds like a nice find. What part of the country is your teacher/repairman located in? I've got a very nice 1970 SDA alto that, although it plays great now, I'd love to have regulated and repadded by someone who really knows them.