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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / uh-oh

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bariman1226
User ID: 9600383 Nov 22nd 7:56 PM
I own a Julius Keilwerth SX90 Black Nickel Low A Bari, and I am damn proud of it. It's beautiful and it plays like a monster.

OK, so here's my problem -

I'm playing a show recently, and after a particularly good set, I walk off the stage with my bari still on my neckstrap. A rather drunk gentleman runs into me, knocking me down into a table. There is only cosmetic damage - the lip of the bell rolled in at a pretty steep angle, which I was able to undo with my hands, however there are still 2 quarter-sized depressions in the lip. How would I go about removing these?

In the impact, the bell was also forced back into the bell brace a little. This caused the bell to buckle in a little bit, which I also fixed by simply pushing the bell back out.

To add insult to injury, though, the gentleman grabbed onto the lyre (which was conveniently in the lyre-holder) and proceeded to rip the lyre holder off in the process. At the same time, just below the lyre holder, a nickel sized depression was forced into the body. Is it possible to not only have the lyre holder reattached, but also to correct the depression in this area?

I have just recently noticed that the Low Bb and A are playing a little wonky - upon further inspection, when the Low A is played, the Low Bb pad does not close all the way, and the action on the A and Bb is sluggish and unresponsive. This leak is corrected by holding down both the Low Bb and Low A keys at the same time, but I find that highly inconvenient when attempting to do quick passages from Low A to Low C# or B. What could be the cause and solution to this problem?

mostly alto guy
User ID: 0122954 Nov 24th 2:14 AM
bariman, have I missed something? Why on Earth is this "gentleman" not paying for the repairs? I get the impression that a lot of people must have witnessed this disaster, so you have some support. Or are they all standing by this guy because they're his friends? (Real friends would help the guy with his drinking problem and encourage him to do the right thing, by the way.)You should try very hard to get compensation for this, from the man, the organization that put on the gig, the venue/club, somewhere. Accidents do happen, but that's why people, organizations, and businesses carry insurance.

My recommendation--get the horn properly repaired, but before you do, straighten out who will pay. It should not be you.

George Briscoe
User ID: 9161143 Nov 24th 3:19 AM
I don't know about the WW & BW's repair work, but I think you've already answered your own question about the Evanston Sax Shop... Is that the same place that used to be called "The Saxophone Shop" 20 years ago (they were in Evanston)? I hope not!

john
User ID: 8339223 Nov 24th 10:11 AM
bariman,
What an awful tragedy. I can only agree. Bite the bullet. Get a pro repair. You will regret it later if you don't.

john

Bari Martin
User ID: 0394114 Nov 24th 10:21 AM
The Brass Bow, Arlington Heights does a very good job on dent work. I threatened to kill a roadie for knocking my soprano down once, and had every intention of doing it. Fortunately, reason prevailed, he's still alive and I'm still a free man. It's much better to seek legal remedies after everyone sobers up and cools down. It is said that revenge is a dish best served cold.

saxdaddy@napbirt.org
User ID: 9725373 Nov 24th 12:19 PM
So Steve where did you get a BARI SAX MANDREL?
I am assuming you are talking about a straight mandrel right? How much? I really want to know, never even heard of such a thing, from any supplier. Must have been a custom job huh. Sounds cool, whats unique about it? I bet it must weigh at least 150 lbs. Can it be held in a standard vise and vise stand? I want to know, because I need a tapred mandrel that will fit the entire legnth of the body tube, and still be large enough at both ends, most mandrels start to weigh alot as they get bigger and then the vise has to hold that much more wieght on top of the pressure that you are putting on it, but then to small a diameter and your work starts to become much more tedious. Do you have any dimensions, such as length of taper and large and small end diameters?

SAXGOURMET
User ID: 0534004 Nov 24th 1:03 PM
it's a new item from Ferree Tool. It fits in my vise (a very MANLY vise!), but it takes two of us just to mount it. you can also get them from Bohem Tool in Germany. The Ferree one is appropriately tapered for just about all saxes (alto, tenor, bari), you just have to have plenty of room in your shop!

saxdaddy@napbirt.org
User ID: 9725373 Nov 24th 1:33 PM
Ok so thats the new one on the site, I was thinking of a larger version of the same one.
Thanks.

bariman1226
User ID: 9600383 Nov 26th 8:15 PM
The gentleman and his pals scurried out of the club shorlty after the incident - at the time I was still fairly dazed and was inspecting the horn under a light while he booked it out of there. The club doesn't want to pay for the repairs, as they claim that it's not their responsibility to remind to leave my horn on stage...unattended...which just happened to be the direction the gentleman was heading when he collided with me (hmmmmm...this prospect seems even less safe than what I chose).

So as it goes, I have to pay for this out of pocket.

Thanks Bari Martin - I will call the Brass Bow and check them out.

saxdaddy@napbirt.org
User ID: 9725373 Nov 28th 8:32 AM
Man I use to pput my horn in my case when not in use just because drunk people don't think straight, and the ones that make their way on the stage seem to be the worst off.

kevvieg
User ID: 0568574 Nov 28th 9:14 AM
All I know is that if I ever ran into the guy while driving, I'd want to "run into" the guy. This is why I won't play bars without high stages anymore. I may have lost some income, but nowhere near what it would cost to replace my horns. Every time an overzealous couple started "swing-dancing" near my horns I would get more and more anxious. It's a sad thing that there are so many stupid, inconsiderate people in the world.

not that I'm bitter......

George Briscoe
User ID: 9161143 Nov 30th 4:11 AM
The real problem is that most people don't even have the faintest CLUE as to how much these saxes are worth, how fragile they are, or how much it costs to repair them.

supr20dan
User ID: 8158483 Nov 30th 6:12 PM
bariman ,you must get a "beater bari" for rough gigs. this scenario is bound to repeat itself. get one off ebay for around $500 and it will pay for itself in repair bills eventually. i bought a brand new mk6 low bari and was very proud of it and wanted to show it off. a drunk rushed the stage to say something into a mike and knocked it over. it now has a huge dent and scar . i bought a beat up pro bari right after that .my selmer only goes on gigs where i know it will be safe.

Subtone Sam
User ID: 1432154 Nov 30th 6:39 PM
Good idea.I´ve been thinking about getting a used Yamaha 62 (tenor) or something for the crappy gigs.Absolutely no use bringing a $4000 horn to gigs with no stage and these drunken "genlemen" (or ladies) wandering around.
A shotgun resting on a saxstand might work too!!

Bootman
User ID: 7601343 Nov 30th 10:11 PM
The other thing with a bari is to try to avoid leaving ot on the stand, use the case instead. Having a beater Bari is always a good option.

George Briscoe
User ID: 9161143 Dec 1st 4:48 AM
I bought a $1,000 Conn bari to use as a "beater" for club gigs (instead of my Low A Mk.VI) and guess what? I liked the sound so much that it's now my main baritone!!! Easier on my back, too...

super20dan
User ID: 8158483 Dec 1st 7:04 AM
george-this is how i discovered my super20 bari.bought it as a beater but its so good that i only play my selmer when i need low a

Bootman
User ID: 7601343 Dec 1st 2:06 PM
I have had the same thing happen to me in the past, buying a back up horn that eventually replaces your main horn which is then relegated to back-up status or sold.

George Briscoe
User ID: 9161143 Dec 1st 8:20 PM
I see that I'm in good company! Pre-Chu altos & tenors also make inexpensive, but good sounding horns for playing in crowded sleazy little blues bars. Plus, they have that funky old blues tone!

bariman1226
User ID: 9600383 Dec 1st 10:48 PM
I am actually looking into a beater right now - my current front runners are some of the Conns and Kings. Thanks for all your help. I am going to take my bari to the Brass Bow and have Wayne work on it.

This may kill the christmas budget, ha.

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages

bariman1226 User ID: 9600383	Nov 22nd 7:56 PM I own a Julius Keilwerth SX90 Black Nickel Low A Bari, and I am damn proud of it. It's beautiful and it plays like a monster. OK, so here's my problem - I'm playing a show recently, and after a particularly good set, I walk off the stage with my bari still on my neckstrap. A rather drunk gentleman runs into me, knocking me down into a table. There is only cosmetic damage - the lip of the bell rolled in at a pretty steep angle, which I was able to undo with my hands, however there are still 2 quarter-sized depressions in the lip. How would I go about removing these? In the impact, the bell was also forced back into the bell brace a little. This caused the bell to buckle in a little bit, which I also fixed by simply pushing the bell back out. To add insult to injury, though, the gentleman grabbed onto the lyre (which was conveniently in the lyre-holder) and proceeded to rip the lyre holder off in the process. At the same time, just below the lyre holder, a nickel sized depression was forced into the body. Is it possible to not only have the lyre holder reattached, but also to correct the depression in this area? I have just recently noticed that the Low Bb and A are playing a little wonky - upon further inspection, when the Low A is played, the Low Bb pad does not close all the way, and the action on the A and Bb is sluggish and unresponsive. This leak is corrected by holding down both the Low Bb and Low A keys at the same time, but I find that highly inconvenient when attempting to do quick passages from Low A to Low C# or B. What could be the cause and solution to this problem?
mostly alto guy User ID: 0122954	Nov 24th 2:14 AM bariman, have I missed something? Why on Earth is this "gentleman" not paying for the repairs? I get the impression that a lot of people must have witnessed this disaster, so you have some support. Or are they all standing by this guy because they're his friends? (Real friends would help the guy with his drinking problem and encourage him to do the right thing, by the way.)You should try very hard to get compensation for this, from the man, the organization that put on the gig, the venue/club, somewhere. Accidents do happen, but that's why people, organizations, and businesses carry insurance. My recommendation--get the horn properly repaired, but before you do, straighten out who will pay. It should not be you.
George Briscoe User ID: 9161143	Nov 24th 3:19 AM I don't know about the WW & BW's repair work, but I think you've already answered your own question about the Evanston Sax Shop... Is that the same place that used to be called "The Saxophone Shop" 20 years ago (they were in Evanston)? I hope not!
john User ID: 8339223	Nov 24th 10:11 AM bariman, What an awful tragedy. I can only agree. Bite the bullet. Get a pro repair. You will regret it later if you don't. john
Bari Martin User ID: 0394114	Nov 24th 10:21 AM The Brass Bow, Arlington Heights does a very good job on dent work. I threatened to kill a roadie for knocking my soprano down once, and had every intention of doing it. Fortunately, reason prevailed, he's still alive and I'm still a free man. It's much better to seek legal remedies after everyone sobers up and cools down. It is said that revenge is a dish best served cold.
saxdaddy@napbirt.org User ID: 9725373	Nov 24th 12:19 PM So Steve where did you get a BARI SAX MANDREL? I am assuming you are talking about a straight mandrel right? How much? I really want to know, never even heard of such a thing, from any supplier. Must have been a custom job huh. Sounds cool, whats unique about it? I bet it must weigh at least 150 lbs. Can it be held in a standard vise and vise stand? I want to know, because I need a tapred mandrel that will fit the entire legnth of the body tube, and still be large enough at both ends, most mandrels start to weigh alot as they get bigger and then the vise has to hold that much more wieght on top of the pressure that you are putting on it, but then to small a diameter and your work starts to become much more tedious. Do you have any dimensions, such as length of taper and large and small end diameters?
SAXGOURMET User ID: 0534004	Nov 24th 1:03 PM it's a new item from Ferree Tool. It fits in my vise (a very MANLY vise!), but it takes two of us just to mount it. you can also get them from Bohem Tool in Germany. The Ferree one is appropriately tapered for just about all saxes (alto, tenor, bari), you just have to have plenty of room in your shop!
saxdaddy@napbirt.org User ID: 9725373	Nov 24th 1:33 PM Ok so thats the new one on the site, I was thinking of a larger version of the same one. Thanks.
bariman1226 User ID: 9600383	Nov 26th 8:15 PM The gentleman and his pals scurried out of the club shorlty after the incident - at the time I was still fairly dazed and was inspecting the horn under a light while he booked it out of there. The club doesn't want to pay for the repairs, as they claim that it's not their responsibility to remind to leave my horn on stage...unattended...which just happened to be the direction the gentleman was heading when he collided with me (hmmmmm...this prospect seems even less safe than what I chose). So as it goes, I have to pay for this out of pocket. Thanks Bari Martin - I will call the Brass Bow and check them out.
saxdaddy@napbirt.org User ID: 9725373	Nov 28th 8:32 AM Man I use to pput my horn in my case when not in use just because drunk people don't think straight, and the ones that make their way on the stage seem to be the worst off.
kevvieg User ID: 0568574	Nov 28th 9:14 AM All I know is that if I ever ran into the guy while driving, I'd want to "run into" the guy. This is why I won't play bars without high stages anymore. I may have lost some income, but nowhere near what it would cost to replace my horns. Every time an overzealous couple started "swing-dancing" near my horns I would get more and more anxious. It's a sad thing that there are so many stupid, inconsiderate people in the world. not that I'm bitter......
George Briscoe User ID: 9161143	Nov 30th 4:11 AM The real problem is that most people don't even have the faintest CLUE as to how much these saxes are worth, how fragile they are, or how much it costs to repair them.
supr20dan User ID: 8158483	Nov 30th 6:12 PM bariman ,you must get a "beater bari" for rough gigs. this scenario is bound to repeat itself. get one off ebay for around $500 and it will pay for itself in repair bills eventually. i bought a brand new mk6 low bari and was very proud of it and wanted to show it off. a drunk rushed the stage to say something into a mike and knocked it over. it now has a huge dent and scar . i bought a beat up pro bari right after that .my selmer only goes on gigs where i know it will be safe.
Subtone Sam User ID: 1432154	Nov 30th 6:39 PM Good idea.I´ve been thinking about getting a used Yamaha 62 (tenor) or something for the crappy gigs.Absolutely no use bringing a $4000 horn to gigs with no stage and these drunken "genlemen" (or ladies) wandering around. A shotgun resting on a saxstand might work too!!
Bootman User ID: 7601343	Nov 30th 10:11 PM The other thing with a bari is to try to avoid leaving ot on the stand, use the case instead. Having a beater Bari is always a good option.
George Briscoe User ID: 9161143	Dec 1st 4:48 AM I bought a $1,000 Conn bari to use as a "beater" for club gigs (instead of my Low A Mk.VI) and guess what? I liked the sound so much that it's now my main baritone!!! Easier on my back, too...
super20dan User ID: 8158483	Dec 1st 7:04 AM george-this is how i discovered my super20 bari.bought it as a beater but its so good that i only play my selmer when i need low a
Bootman User ID: 7601343	Dec 1st 2:06 PM I have had the same thing happen to me in the past, buying a back up horn that eventually replaces your main horn which is then relegated to back-up status or sold.
George Briscoe User ID: 9161143	Dec 1st 8:20 PM I see that I'm in good company! Pre-Chu altos & tenors also make inexpensive, but good sounding horns for playing in crowded sleazy little blues bars. Plus, they have that funky old blues tone!
bariman1226 User ID: 9600383	Dec 1st 10:48 PM I am actually looking into a beater right now - my current front runners are some of the Conns and Kings. Thanks for all your help. I am going to take my bari to the Brass Bow and have Wayne work on it. This may kill the christmas budget, ha.