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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / super 20 bari

Next 20 Messages

sarge/worldwidesax
User ID: 1042384 Sep 5th 10:09 AM
Hey bari cats. I'm doing a Premium rebuild on my super 20 bari right now. For anyone who has never had a chance to see one up close, I posted some very nice pics at my website, worldwidesax.com It was a one owner horn and in great shape, so it's a really good example of the later horns King built and one of the very best designs I have ever had the pleasure to work on. (sorry working musicians, I know how poorly you are paid... I made my living as a working musician for years. *Why do people glorify and over pay atheletes, when what we should worship is musicians and artist for their cerebral talent*) I know it's pricy, I had to pay a ton just to have the honor of working on it, but it's a very rare bird.
Pete, if you happen to read this, you are welcome to copy the pics.

Mike R.
User ID: 9398453 Sep 5th 12:03 PM
What a beauty...if only I had the money...Sarge, do you have a lay-away plan? ;-)

sarge
User ID: 9948493 Sep 5th 2:11 PM
Thanks, Mike. I'm having a lot of fun with the webpage on this sax, lotsss of extra pics and stuff added today, at http://www.worldwidesax.com/bari.htm
Enjoy. oh and yes, of course Mike, we do 90 day interest free lay a way. see our info and orders page. (blatent advertisement over now ;>)

super20dan
User ID: 0255034 Sep 5th 4:30 PM
hey mike r,if you think the super20 tenor is where its at then you havnt lived till you play a super20 bari! these things are monsters and will bury any conn ever made.

Gerbil
User ID: 9913923 Sep 5th 4:35 PM
Is that your opinion or a recorded fact?

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 Sep 6th 5:56 PM
Were any King Super 20 baris made in the Cleveland factory? Or were the earliest models built in Eastlake?

super20dan
User ID: 0255034 Sep 6th 6:38 PM
thats a good ?.mine is an east lake 460,xxx

sarge
User ID: 9948493 Sep 6th 9:21 PM
I think the earliest super 20 baris were in the 360k range. That should be Cleveland. they were still trying to keep the design the same as the super 20 altos and tenors. The eastlake horns were mechanically redesigned, and had terrific keywork... some very clever design innovations. No more difficult to push C# keys and sound wise, they are very, very big, with some edge. Of course I just finished my premium rebuild with very hard Prestini pads and large hollywood reso's so it's bound to be a little stronger than the original soft mushy pads with small flat reso's. The high octave is pure and beautiful, just like a tenor, I don't think you could tell it isn't a tenor if your eyes were closed. Lows are big and ballsy. I'm play testing it with a Wagner HR mouthpiece and there is no zone on the horn that doesn't sound good. more later after I get it a little steamy for a while.

StevenW
User ID: 8952923 Sep 6th 9:29 PM
Sarge,

Since it is such an uncommon Bari what would you contrast and liken it to?

Regards,

Steve W

sarge
User ID: 9948493 Sep 7th 2:15 PM
Well, I have three baris in the shop rihgt now, a Buescher 400, a the martin bari and this super 20. strangely I have rebuilt about 6 baris in the last 8 weeks, so I can make a fair comparison... But to me the Buescher was very neutral, but still strong/ powerful. It is not too bright or too bassy, the balance is consistant from lows to highs. It has a good clean sound and good projection
The martin has a more foggy or distant sound, it is darker and has less projection, played side by side with these. It is a prettier sound, more like a section horn. the notes get somewhat more distant as they get higher, making it sound very much bari-ish.
the super 20 has the best projection and sounds like a super 20 tenor all the way down. the notes remain clear up high, but the volume is consistant. As you go lower, it develops some very nice subtones, that support the tenorlike sound with harmonic depth.
I wish I had the technology to put wav. recordings at my site, but I have no idea how to. I find it hard to describe sound when there is so much content. Long story short, all three are great baris for different reasons. I can't think what I could compare the super 20 to, or contrast it with. I've just finished Premium jobs on 2 Big B aristocrats, a the martin bari, a 70's Keilwerth stencil, A 12M/Chu tranny and with fairly fresh memories of all, I say none are similar to one another. Each is cool. sorry to waffle, but I just love playing these old horns, so I can't pick a favorite. peace, sarge.

Bari Martin
User ID: 1460434 Sep 9th 7:41 PM
Okay, Sarge, the question; Have you ever seen a Super 20 bari with a Sterling silver bell?

sarge
User ID: 1042384 Sep 10th 12:33 PM
Nope, never have... but I don't get to see many of them at all. I've never seen a cleveland bari in silver and my understanding is that necks and bells could be special ordered in silver at the time of this eastlake era horn, but I'm not too sure how many were ever produced that way. Pete Hales has access to catalogs and notes that the silversonic baris are not listed. (but could it be special ordered?...well most companies would do anything you wanted for the right enumeration, naked women frolicking about, even a left handed model ;>)
Seriously though, the bell on this baby is pretty huge, maybe it was a really high priced step-up option. Anybody out there have further ideas or experience?

super20dan
User ID: 0255034 Sep 10th 5:35 PM
there was a old thread about some one who played a silver bell s20 bari when he was in high school.he said the school owned it.imagine that!. when i was in high school they supplied us with selmer mk6,s!

Matt Quinley
User ID: 2087514 Sep 10th 7:28 PM
Hi Sarge, I bought the 70s Keilwerth stencil. Still having lots of fun with it. I was wondering what became of the low-A Martin Magna you had on the site right after I bought my horn. Might there be any more good low-A horns in your immediate future?

sarge
User ID: 1042384 Sep 11th 10:25 AM
Hi Matt,
that martin low A was sold to someone in europe, I hated to see it go. I don't see a lot of low A martin bari's either, but I am always looking for good playing ones, so i'm sure I'll get more. I really liked the sound of your k'werth, it would be fun to find a low a version of that one!

MusicMan
User ID: 0108854 Sep 11th 10:51 AM
super20dan, that was me...the band director at the time was a sax player and loved the sound of the super 20 silversonic when he tried it at a trade show, so since the school had given him a fairly hefty new instrument budget, he ordered both a King Zephyr and a Super 20 bari with the silver neck and bell. We marched the Zephyr and used the Super 20 for jazz band and concert band. I played both horns...

MusicMan
User ID: 0108854 Sep 11th 10:53 AM
I should also note he went for the optional gold inlay on the engraving...

MusicMan
User ID: 0108854 Sep 11th 11:05 AM
One more note...we also had a Buffet Eb contrabass clarinet. At the time, the school district was supporting the performing arts...there was also a Conn bass sax (from the 30's), a Mk 6 alto and tenor, and other pro quality instruments in the inventory.

Randall
User ID: 0492334 Sep 13th 4:44 AM
Sarge, the owner of the store i work for has seen silversonic baris WİTH sidepearls!!!!
He said there were several purchased in our area by either the local police band or Japanese military band...he couldnt remember exactly which bought them. He is quick to add that it has been MANY MANY years since he has seen these horns and that they have probably been shipped out of the area....Wouldn't İ give my eye teeth for one of those babies!!!

Mike R.
User ID: 2073324 Sep 13th 10:24 AM
Great pics, Sarge. Man, if I only had the bread!

Next 20 Messages

sarge/worldwidesax User ID: 1042384	Sep 5th 10:09 AM Hey bari cats. I'm doing a Premium rebuild on my super 20 bari right now. For anyone who has never had a chance to see one up close, I posted some very nice pics at my website, worldwidesax.com It was a one owner horn and in great shape, so it's a really good example of the later horns King built and one of the very best designs I have ever had the pleasure to work on. (sorry working musicians, I know how poorly you are paid... I made my living as a working musician for years. Why do people glorify and over pay atheletes, when what we should worship is musicians and artist for their cerebral talent) I know it's pricy, I had to pay a ton just to have the honor of working on it, but it's a very rare bird. Pete, if you happen to read this, you are welcome to copy the pics.
Mike R. User ID: 9398453	Sep 5th 12:03 PM What a beauty...if only I had the money...Sarge, do you have a lay-away plan? ;-)
sarge User ID: 9948493	Sep 5th 2:11 PM Thanks, Mike. I'm having a lot of fun with the webpage on this sax, lotsss of extra pics and stuff added today, at http://www.worldwidesax.com/bari.htm Enjoy. oh and yes, of course Mike, we do 90 day interest free lay a way. see our info and orders page. (blatent advertisement over now ;>)
super20dan User ID: 0255034	Sep 5th 4:30 PM hey mike r,if you think the super20 tenor is where its at then you havnt lived till you play a super20 bari! these things are monsters and will bury any conn ever made.
Gerbil User ID: 9913923	Sep 5th 4:35 PM Is that your opinion or a recorded fact?
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	Sep 6th 5:56 PM Were any King Super 20 baris made in the Cleveland factory? Or were the earliest models built in Eastlake?
super20dan User ID: 0255034	Sep 6th 6:38 PM thats a good ?.mine is an east lake 460,xxx
sarge User ID: 9948493	Sep 6th 9:21 PM I think the earliest super 20 baris were in the 360k range. That should be Cleveland. they were still trying to keep the design the same as the super 20 altos and tenors. The eastlake horns were mechanically redesigned, and had terrific keywork... some very clever design innovations. No more difficult to push C# keys and sound wise, they are very, very big, with some edge. Of course I just finished my premium rebuild with very hard Prestini pads and large hollywood reso's so it's bound to be a little stronger than the original soft mushy pads with small flat reso's. The high octave is pure and beautiful, just like a tenor, I don't think you could tell it isn't a tenor if your eyes were closed. Lows are big and ballsy. I'm play testing it with a Wagner HR mouthpiece and there is no zone on the horn that doesn't sound good. more later after I get it a little steamy for a while.
StevenW User ID: 8952923	Sep 6th 9:29 PM Sarge, Since it is such an uncommon Bari what would you contrast and liken it to? Regards, Steve W
sarge User ID: 9948493	Sep 7th 2:15 PM Well, I have three baris in the shop rihgt now, a Buescher 400, a the martin bari and this super 20. strangely I have rebuilt about 6 baris in the last 8 weeks, so I can make a fair comparison... But to me the Buescher was very neutral, but still strong/ powerful. It is not too bright or too bassy, the balance is consistant from lows to highs. It has a good clean sound and good projection The martin has a more foggy or distant sound, it is darker and has less projection, played side by side with these. It is a prettier sound, more like a section horn. the notes get somewhat more distant as they get higher, making it sound very much bari-ish. the super 20 has the best projection and sounds like a super 20 tenor all the way down. the notes remain clear up high, but the volume is consistant. As you go lower, it develops some very nice subtones, that support the tenorlike sound with harmonic depth. I wish I had the technology to put wav. recordings at my site, but I have no idea how to. I find it hard to describe sound when there is so much content. Long story short, all three are great baris for different reasons. I can't think what I could compare the super 20 to, or contrast it with. I've just finished Premium jobs on 2 Big B aristocrats, a the martin bari, a 70's Keilwerth stencil, A 12M/Chu tranny and with fairly fresh memories of all, I say none are similar to one another. Each is cool. sorry to waffle, but I just love playing these old horns, so I can't pick a favorite. peace, sarge.
Bari Martin User ID: 1460434	Sep 9th 7:41 PM Okay, Sarge, the question; Have you ever seen a Super 20 bari with a Sterling silver bell?
sarge User ID: 1042384	Sep 10th 12:33 PM Nope, never have... but I don't get to see many of them at all. I've never seen a cleveland bari in silver and my understanding is that necks and bells could be special ordered in silver at the time of this eastlake era horn, but I'm not too sure how many were ever produced that way. Pete Hales has access to catalogs and notes that the silversonic baris are not listed. (but could it be special ordered?...well most companies would do anything you wanted for the right enumeration, naked women frolicking about, even a left handed model ;>) Seriously though, the bell on this baby is pretty huge, maybe it was a really high priced step-up option. Anybody out there have further ideas or experience?
super20dan User ID: 0255034	Sep 10th 5:35 PM there was a old thread about some one who played a silver bell s20 bari when he was in high school.he said the school owned it.imagine that!. when i was in high school they supplied us with selmer mk6,s!
Matt Quinley User ID: 2087514	Sep 10th 7:28 PM Hi Sarge, I bought the 70s Keilwerth stencil. Still having lots of fun with it. I was wondering what became of the low-A Martin Magna you had on the site right after I bought my horn. Might there be any more good low-A horns in your immediate future?
sarge User ID: 1042384	Sep 11th 10:25 AM Hi Matt, that martin low A was sold to someone in europe, I hated to see it go. I don't see a lot of low A martin bari's either, but I am always looking for good playing ones, so i'm sure I'll get more. I really liked the sound of your k'werth, it would be fun to find a low a version of that one!
MusicMan User ID: 0108854	Sep 11th 10:51 AM super20dan, that was me...the band director at the time was a sax player and loved the sound of the super 20 silversonic when he tried it at a trade show, so since the school had given him a fairly hefty new instrument budget, he ordered both a King Zephyr and a Super 20 bari with the silver neck and bell. We marched the Zephyr and used the Super 20 for jazz band and concert band. I played both horns...
MusicMan User ID: 0108854	Sep 11th 10:53 AM I should also note he went for the optional gold inlay on the engraving...
MusicMan User ID: 0108854	Sep 11th 11:05 AM One more note...we also had a Buffet Eb contrabass clarinet. At the time, the school district was supporting the performing arts...there was also a Conn bass sax (from the 30's), a Mk 6 alto and tenor, and other pro quality instruments in the inventory.
Randall User ID: 0492334	Sep 13th 4:44 AM Sarge, the owner of the store i work for has seen silversonic baris WİTH sidepearls!!!! He said there were several purchased in our area by either the local police band or Japanese military band...he couldnt remember exactly which bought them. He is quick to add that it has been MANY MANY years since he has seen these horns and that they have probably been shipped out of the area....Wouldn't İ give my eye teeth for one of those babies!!!
Mike R. User ID: 2073324	Sep 13th 10:24 AM Great pics, Sarge. Man, if I only had the bread!