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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / Aarrgghh! My Bari fell on the floor!

WW2
User ID: 8917553 Feb 12th 5:48 PM
Yesterday, my 1926 Buescher True Tone Baritone sax fell over with the sax stand it was on. It crashed to the carpeted floor on its left side.

The fall destroyed my Fibracell reed but no other OBVIOUS damage was visible. It appears that the mouthpiece hit the carpet first and the removable part of the neck simply twisted in its collar as the rest of the big sax hit the floor. It appears that the entire left side hit all at once rather than any single part taking the entire blow. There are so many small dents in the neck that a new one wouldn't be obvious.

Well, I tossed the destroyed Fibracell and put a previously broken in, and known good, Rico Royal reed on the mouthpiece. However, now I have a bad case of the squeaks on G2 and above. All attempts to solve the problem failed.

Any suggestions on what I should look for?

Andres
User ID: 0429484 Feb 12th 6:52 PM
A repair tech that you trust. Have it checked out.

OnyxSax
User ID: 9683713 Feb 12th 11:08 PM
I've been there. My 1927 Conn once took a major hit, severely denting the body tube. I was ashamed of myself that I didn't have the heart to bring it to my tech for a few months after the horn was hit. Not to worry, a good tech can make it come back.

It sounds like your particular horn might have have been knocked out of alignment, perhaps a post got hit, perhaps the body tube is slightly bent. Definitely get a qualified tech to check the horn out.

WW2
User ID: 7754613 Feb 13th 12:28 PM
I guess my wallet is going to get hit too!

Bummer! Oh well, that's life.

magnus ver magnussen
User ID: 6298523 Feb 18th 11:26 AM
Yep, you're going to have to get that checked out. MY guess, though, is that it's related to the octave key mechanism, which is bridged between the neck and the body, correct?

So while you have a routine checkup on the horn and have the upper stack checked out, make sure the neck is looked at both with the horn and without.

steve
User ID: 6570393 Feb 19th 8:01 AM
WW...I feel your pain...my "The Martin" hit the stage hard in a 30 mph wind at an outside festival gig last summer when its stand tipped over.No sound can match a "pig" in freefall followed by a thud. A $700 overhaul later ( it needed it anyway)by my local tech and a new hole drilled in the stand to move a cushion and all is well. ( Will keep in the case however if we play outdoors again.)

WW2
User ID: 8917553 Feb 19th 3:45 PM
Okay, I took your good advice and sent it to my technician. He is having a look at it. The initial inspection showed no obvious problems, so I may just get away with a re-alignment of the upperstack.

It has been almost two years since it was repadded, so I guess it was due for a check-up anyway.

Thanks for your help.

WW2
User ID: 0651814 Mar 7th 7:24 PM
Okay, I got the bari back. It had many leaks and a bent key or two.

The Circular part of the neck (what is the proper name for that part of a bari sax) was bent. It appears that this is where the major hit was when it hit the floor.

But, I have a great repairman and he fixed it a made it as good as ever! Thanks to him and all of you for your help.

WoodwindBoy
User ID: 1682844 Mar 8th 11:28 AM
if you mean the part of the neck that fits into the socket, it's called a "tenon". Glad to hear your sax got fixed! I had a similar scare with my Yanagasawa Silver Series Bari once, but luckily, I caught it before it hit the floor. (Cut the crap out of my hand on it, though...better an injured hand than an injured sax, I guess!) :-)

Just discovered this forum...looks like fun!

Bootman
User ID: 9495963 Mar 8th 5:54 PM
I broke a bone in my foot once when a Bari sling let go. No damage to the horn but it was a real scare. It was an outdoor gig too on pavement.

The usual point of damage on a Bari is the S bend after the sax has hit the bow, it invariably falls on the S bend section. This also causes a bend in the body of the horn and upsets everything else on the horn. Get the horn straightened and it will come back as good as new.

greasehonkey
User ID: 9579203 Mar 11th 8:54 PM

Hey WW2,a little late on this reply,but I`ve got
a true tone also,around `27 maybe `28 .
What do you think of the horn just generally?
And,the question : Which mouthpieces have you
had success with?
I`ve tried boodles but the only jazz mouthpiece
works for me on this horn is a Bamber jazz.
Don`t remember the tip ,kind of medium maybe 105
,small baffle,moderate chamber ,long facing.
Not a big time piece but works well on mine.

WW2
User ID: 0651814 Mar 20th 3:51 PM
A little background on me:

I have been playing since 1972. During my junior year in high school I got second seat alto in the all district honor band in Cerritos, CA. Unfortunately, after school I became a computer programmer rather than a professional musician. Big mistake...

I play as an amateur and have never played a paying gig; unless you count last year's 4th of July parade in Temecula when the band got a check for $300. I am now a volunteer coach each year at a local high school during their band camp. I coach the entire woodwind section. I often go with the band and do many emergency repairs just minutes before the band takes the field. You should see what I did to a bass clarinet with a bobby pin and a rubber band. The whole lower stack was about to fall off, but the repair made it through the performance with flying colors. Of course, the clarinet went to a real repairperson after the competition.

Anyway, I usually play the Bari in the yearly Temecula Community Marching band for the city's 4th of July parade.

I use a LeBlanc hard rubber mouthpiece with a metal ligature. This is a LARGE chambered mouthpiece with NO baffle and a moderate tip (.110 I think). I use the metal ligature because the mouthpiece is so large that Rovner ligatures do not wrap around it! Bummer, I really like the Rovner Dark ligatures.

I prefer Fibracell medium-soft reeds so that the Bari is well heard. I am generally the only low voice woodwind and play the same part as the Sousaphone. Can you believe a marching baritone saxophone SOLO!!!!! What a hoot!

I have found that the Buescher absolutely blows away the two Selmer (student model?) low A Bari Saxes that sometimes join the group. Something about the small bells on the low A Selmers that keep them quiet. Then again, I have always had a reputation for being the loudest sax (even before the Fibracells!)

My G and G# are almost 25 cents sharp, so I really have to work to keep those notes in tune. All other notes are within a few cents, so I just live with the G and G#. Initially, the sax was not in tune. My repairman said to toss the medium baffle, small chamber "modern" no name mouthpiece and get a LARGE chamber NO Baffle mouthpiece. That change made a HUGH difference in intonation, volume, and voice.

My daughters call my sax "The Foghorn" and say that my practice sessions register a 6.9 on the Richter scale (can you tell we live in California?).

At the parades, people come up to me just to see the old Silver Plated (okay, TARNISH plated - LOL) sax. They say they have heard about the beast and just wanted to see it. It is a conversation piece and will blow away more gentile modern Baritone saxophones. Anyway, if it only had low A, it would be all I want! (Yeah, right!) You know it is tough to use the "knee in the bell" trick when you are marching!

See my “beast” at http://home1.gte.net/wwalker/collection.html

grease
User ID: 9293943 Mar 22nd 10:01 PM
Listen,Rovner makes a ligature that will work on that mouthpiece. Made for bass sax but Classicsax.com sells it with their Rascher bari mouthpiece which is as big as any bari mouthpiece built. I`ve got one myself.

I was told the same thing about using only large chamber- no baffle pieces ,but haven`t found it to be true .The horn plays in tune and well with just about anything ,including a cheapo metallite 11m , their most open. You just have to have the right reed. I have to work on reeds.

If yours is that badly out of tune I`d say it has an adjustment problem. The only questionable note on mine is the A with register ,and that`s certainly not exclusive to these horns.

I use mine in a big-band ,a quartet,occasional jazz at jam sessions (i`m a chronic jazz student) ,and blues . Get paid most weekends ,but then i play string bass too.

George Briscoe
User ID: 1076954 Mar 23rd 2:40 AM
Hi WW2,

Cool name! My Dad flew in your war! ;^)>

"Ah feel your pain" about having your bari get bent. My "right arm" is a late production Low "A" Mk.VI that I bought new in 1979 (it had been on the shelf for a while) and 19 years later, when I flew back from a road tour in 1998, Southwest %@&*^@#$%&*!!! Airlines threw it out of the cargo bay directly onto the tarmac and severely bent it even in an ANVIL CASE!!! I was, to say the least, devistated. When I pulled it out of the case at home and saw the bent bell, felt the stuck keys, and found that I could not put the neck into the tenon, I hugged it and cried. Fortunately, my friend Steve Goodson in New Orleans is not only a master repairman, but is also a serious bari player and he knows the nuances of fixing a bent bari upper 'crook' (the most vulnerable part of the bari). My bell was bent, my body tube was bent, the tenon was crushed, the outer section of the 'crook' was shoved towards the body and the octave mechanism was totally out of whack. Steve told me that it would never be the same. He was right. He fixed it and actually made some adjustments to where it played better than before! Sure, it has some lacquer damage, but it speaks better on middle "D" than it did before the crunch! I was so impressed with his work that I later moved to New Orleans for a few months to be his apprentice and learn from him (Besides, every jazz and blues horn player needs to live there at least once in their life! That funky Nawlins sound and feel permeates your bones and never goes away!). I'm glad to hear that your bari seems to have been fixed, but if you continue to have any problems with it, I suggest that you send it to Steve. He's the really experienced guru on vintage Bueschers in general and all baris in particular!

Good luck!

George Briscoe :^)>

WW2
User ID: 0651814 Mar 26th 7:50 PM
Thanks all!

JP
User ID: 9133663 Mar 27th 8:36 PM
When I bought my '34 12M, it was in terrible shape. A good repairman can fix anything. I'm back on the mouthpiece hunt. I had a Runyon Custom 9, which was nice, but I got it signed by Ronnie Cuber and I don't want it to rub off. I have an old Brilhart that gives me a good sound, but the pitch is everywhere. I tried a HR Berg 120/0 I really liked, and the pitch was good.

WW2 User ID: 8917553	Feb 12th 5:48 PM Yesterday, my 1926 Buescher True Tone Baritone sax fell over with the sax stand it was on. It crashed to the carpeted floor on its left side. The fall destroyed my Fibracell reed but no other OBVIOUS damage was visible. It appears that the mouthpiece hit the carpet first and the removable part of the neck simply twisted in its collar as the rest of the big sax hit the floor. It appears that the entire left side hit all at once rather than any single part taking the entire blow. There are so many small dents in the neck that a new one wouldn't be obvious. Well, I tossed the destroyed Fibracell and put a previously broken in, and known good, Rico Royal reed on the mouthpiece. However, now I have a bad case of the squeaks on G2 and above. All attempts to solve the problem failed. Any suggestions on what I should look for?
Andres User ID: 0429484	Feb 12th 6:52 PM A repair tech that you trust. Have it checked out.
OnyxSax User ID: 9683713	Feb 12th 11:08 PM I've been there. My 1927 Conn once took a major hit, severely denting the body tube. I was ashamed of myself that I didn't have the heart to bring it to my tech for a few months after the horn was hit. Not to worry, a good tech can make it come back. It sounds like your particular horn might have have been knocked out of alignment, perhaps a post got hit, perhaps the body tube is slightly bent. Definitely get a qualified tech to check the horn out.
WW2 User ID: 7754613	Feb 13th 12:28 PM I guess my wallet is going to get hit too! Bummer! Oh well, that's life.
magnus ver magnussen User ID: 6298523	Feb 18th 11:26 AM Yep, you're going to have to get that checked out. MY guess, though, is that it's related to the octave key mechanism, which is bridged between the neck and the body, correct? So while you have a routine checkup on the horn and have the upper stack checked out, make sure the neck is looked at both with the horn and without.
steve User ID: 6570393	Feb 19th 8:01 AM WW...I feel your pain...my "The Martin" hit the stage hard in a 30 mph wind at an outside festival gig last summer when its stand tipped over.No sound can match a "pig" in freefall followed by a thud. A $700 overhaul later ( it needed it anyway)by my local tech and a new hole drilled in the stand to move a cushion and all is well. ( Will keep in the case however if we play outdoors again.)
WW2 User ID: 8917553	Feb 19th 3:45 PM Okay, I took your good advice and sent it to my technician. He is having a look at it. The initial inspection showed no obvious problems, so I may just get away with a re-alignment of the upperstack. It has been almost two years since it was repadded, so I guess it was due for a check-up anyway. Thanks for your help.
WW2 User ID: 0651814	Mar 7th 7:24 PM Okay, I got the bari back. It had many leaks and a bent key or two. The Circular part of the neck (what is the proper name for that part of a bari sax) was bent. It appears that this is where the major hit was when it hit the floor. But, I have a great repairman and he fixed it a made it as good as ever! Thanks to him and all of you for your help.
WoodwindBoy User ID: 1682844	Mar 8th 11:28 AM if you mean the part of the neck that fits into the socket, it's called a "tenon". Glad to hear your sax got fixed! I had a similar scare with my Yanagasawa Silver Series Bari once, but luckily, I caught it before it hit the floor. (Cut the crap out of my hand on it, though...better an injured hand than an injured sax, I guess!) :-) Just discovered this forum...looks like fun!
Bootman User ID: 9495963	Mar 8th 5:54 PM I broke a bone in my foot once when a Bari sling let go. No damage to the horn but it was a real scare. It was an outdoor gig too on pavement. The usual point of damage on a Bari is the S bend after the sax has hit the bow, it invariably falls on the S bend section. This also causes a bend in the body of the horn and upsets everything else on the horn. Get the horn straightened and it will come back as good as new.
greasehonkey User ID: 9579203	Mar 11th 8:54 PM Hey WW2,a little late on this reply,but I`ve got a true tone also,around `27 maybe `28 . What do you think of the horn just generally? And,the question : Which mouthpieces have you had success with? I`ve tried boodles but the only jazz mouthpiece works for me on this horn is a Bamber jazz. Don`t remember the tip ,kind of medium maybe 105 ,small baffle,moderate chamber ,long facing. Not a big time piece but works well on mine.
WW2 User ID: 0651814	Mar 20th 3:51 PM A little background on me: I have been playing since 1972. During my junior year in high school I got second seat alto in the all district honor band in Cerritos, CA. Unfortunately, after school I became a computer programmer rather than a professional musician. Big mistake... I play as an amateur and have never played a paying gig; unless you count last year's 4th of July parade in Temecula when the band got a check for $300. I am now a volunteer coach each year at a local high school during their band camp. I coach the entire woodwind section. I often go with the band and do many emergency repairs just minutes before the band takes the field. You should see what I did to a bass clarinet with a bobby pin and a rubber band. The whole lower stack was about to fall off, but the repair made it through the performance with flying colors. Of course, the clarinet went to a real repairperson after the competition. Anyway, I usually play the Bari in the yearly Temecula Community Marching band for the city's 4th of July parade. I use a LeBlanc hard rubber mouthpiece with a metal ligature. This is a LARGE chambered mouthpiece with NO baffle and a moderate tip (.110 I think). I use the metal ligature because the mouthpiece is so large that Rovner ligatures do not wrap around it! Bummer, I really like the Rovner Dark ligatures. I prefer Fibracell medium-soft reeds so that the Bari is well heard. I am generally the only low voice woodwind and play the same part as the Sousaphone. Can you believe a marching baritone saxophone SOLO!!!!! What a hoot! I have found that the Buescher absolutely blows away the two Selmer (student model?) low A Bari Saxes that sometimes join the group. Something about the small bells on the low A Selmers that keep them quiet. Then again, I have always had a reputation for being the loudest sax (even before the Fibracells!) My G and G# are almost 25 cents sharp, so I really have to work to keep those notes in tune. All other notes are within a few cents, so I just live with the G and G#. Initially, the sax was not in tune. My repairman said to toss the medium baffle, small chamber "modern" no name mouthpiece and get a LARGE chamber NO Baffle mouthpiece. That change made a HUGH difference in intonation, volume, and voice. My daughters call my sax "The Foghorn" and say that my practice sessions register a 6.9 on the Richter scale (can you tell we live in California?). At the parades, people come up to me just to see the old Silver Plated (okay, TARNISH plated - LOL) sax. They say they have heard about the beast and just wanted to see it. It is a conversation piece and will blow away more gentile modern Baritone saxophones. Anyway, if it only had low A, it would be all I want! (Yeah, right!) You know it is tough to use the "knee in the bell" trick when you are marching! See my “beast” at http://home1.gte.net/wwalker/collection.html
grease User ID: 9293943	Mar 22nd 10:01 PM Listen,Rovner makes a ligature that will work on that mouthpiece. Made for bass sax but Classicsax.com sells it with their Rascher bari mouthpiece which is as big as any bari mouthpiece built. I`ve got one myself. I was told the same thing about using only large chamber- no baffle pieces ,but haven`t found it to be true .The horn plays in tune and well with just about anything ,including a cheapo metallite 11m , their most open. You just have to have the right reed. I have to work on reeds. If yours is that badly out of tune I`d say it has an adjustment problem. The only questionable note on mine is the A with register ,and that`s certainly not exclusive to these horns. I use mine in a big-band ,a quartet,occasional jazz at jam sessions (i`m a chronic jazz student) ,and blues . Get paid most weekends ,but then i play string bass too.
George Briscoe User ID: 1076954	Mar 23rd 2:40 AM Hi WW2, Cool name! My Dad flew in your war! ;^)> "Ah feel your pain" about having your bari get bent. My "right arm" is a late production Low "A" Mk.VI that I bought new in 1979 (it had been on the shelf for a while) and 19 years later, when I flew back from a road tour in 1998, Southwest %@&^@#$%&!!! Airlines threw it out of the cargo bay directly onto the tarmac and severely bent it even in an ANVIL CASE!!! I was, to say the least, devistated. When I pulled it out of the case at home and saw the bent bell, felt the stuck keys, and found that I could not put the neck into the tenon, I hugged it and cried. Fortunately, my friend Steve Goodson in New Orleans is not only a master repairman, but is also a serious bari player and he knows the nuances of fixing a bent bari upper 'crook' (the most vulnerable part of the bari). My bell was bent, my body tube was bent, the tenon was crushed, the outer section of the 'crook' was shoved towards the body and the octave mechanism was totally out of whack. Steve told me that it would never be the same. He was right. He fixed it and actually made some adjustments to where it played better than before! Sure, it has some lacquer damage, but it speaks better on middle "D" than it did before the crunch! I was so impressed with his work that I later moved to New Orleans for a few months to be his apprentice and learn from him (Besides, every jazz and blues horn player needs to live there at least once in their life! That funky Nawlins sound and feel permeates your bones and never goes away!). I'm glad to hear that your bari seems to have been fixed, but if you continue to have any problems with it, I suggest that you send it to Steve. He's the really experienced guru on vintage Bueschers in general and all baris in particular! Good luck! George Briscoe :^)>
WW2 User ID: 0651814	Mar 26th 7:50 PM Thanks all!
JP User ID: 9133663	Mar 27th 8:36 PM When I bought my '34 12M, it was in terrible shape. A good repairman can fix anything. I'm back on the mouthpiece hunt. I had a Runyon Custom 9, which was nice, but I got it signed by Ronnie Cuber and I don't want it to rub off. I have an old Brilhart that gives me a good sound, but the pitch is everywhere. I tried a HR Berg 120/0 I really liked, and the pitch was good.