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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / Dark or Bright Tone on Bari...

Next 20 Messages

AaronQ Apr 27th 7:14 PM
Bari players... for jazz, do u usually like a darker or brighter tone?

jmarshall83
User ID: 2309834 Apr 27th 8:12 PM
As a pro bari player I must insist that real bari players sound Big and thick. Not neccesarily thin and bright; just big and bright. The whole Gerry Mulligan approach just ain't gonna cut it on bari. A dark sound will translate to dull and boring due to the size of the horn.

AaronQ Apr 27th 9:19 PM
funny. that's what im goin' for... but right now i've got more of that light mulligan sound... hey, what's your setup? im playing an usa made selmer, i cant recall the model. and a rousseau jdx? mouthpiece usually w/ LaVoz medium hards or medium (depends on what's at school). yea.. im a high school player, and im a decent sax player... i just dont like the tone i get when i play. u have any tips on get a thicker sound? change in mpc...reeds...ligature?? anything tips will be appreciated. thanks.

Merlin
User ID: 8931733 Apr 27th 10:59 PM
Lose the Rousseau JDX if you want to get a thicker sound. Try a Vandoren B75.

AaronQ Apr 27th 11:00 PM
really? will that help my sound significantly?

Merlin
User ID: 8931733 Apr 27th 11:08 PM
I played a JDX8 for years. In order to get the thicker tone I was after, I ended up playing too hard a setup. What I needed was a piece w/less baffle, and a nice big chamber. The Vandoren fit the bill, and I've been using it for the past dozen years.

paulwl
User ID: 9816503 Apr 27th 11:19 PM
>> As a pro bari player I must insist that real bari players sound Big and thick. Not neccesarily thin and bright; just big and bright. The whole Gerry Mulligan approach just ain't gonna cut it on bari. A dark sound will translate to dull and boring due to the size of the horn. <<

I love Gerry's playing, but you're right in one respect: he probably wouldn't have lasted long in today's average session big band or pop horn section. The bari has a very important, and very well defined, role in those groups. Not the place to be the individual that he was.

MojoBari
User ID: 1195644 Apr 27th 11:37 PM
There is no single set-up solution for everyone. I like a lot of baffle on bari. I can play it dark or bright. Try some Runyons.

jmarshall83
User ID: 2309834 Apr 28th 12:16 AM
I use a link metal 9* m-piece and I have put a little bit of baffle in it; just enough to get altissimo out and still play smooth for the ladies

Big changer + medium High Baffle = a great mpiece.

e-mail me @ jmarshall83hotmail.com anyone w/ Qs

RS
User ID: 0610144 Apr 28th 12:11 PM
I like a dark rich sound but I find that bari needs some edge to cut through a loud big band so I use a high baffle piece--RIA 10* with one of Mojo's wedge-in baffles. Good edge and power with a little warmth to the sound. But nobody has ever mistaken me for Harry Carney. Harry had both power and richness but there was only one Harry Carney. Most of us mortals need a little edge to be heard in a loud setting.

Bill
User ID: 0512724 Apr 29th 2:27 AM
RS.
Are you getting anywhere close to Harry Carney's sound??? I agree there is only one Carney. I've been trying for years to get close to his sound. Any ideas???

RS
User ID: 0554384 Apr 29th 11:29 AM
Bill--my sound is considerably edgier (and less rich) than Carney's. I use a large tip piece with extra baffle which is good for volume and power but maybe less good for richness and tone quality. I think a smaller tip, less baffle, and a harder reed might be the way to go in getting the richness of Carney's sound. Plus Carney's natural ability would help.

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 Apr 29th 2:23 PM
Bill and RS,

I have made the switch to a RIA 8. Was playing a JVW C*. Been experimenting with an older HR Berg .110 too, but the RIA with some softer reeds has given me a bit more richness to my sound. I'm looking for more of a Brignola sound (yeah, me and everyone else...)

jmatshall83
User ID: 2309834 Apr 29th 2:36 PM
I knew nick just before he got sick and his etups were as follows:
metal runyon 9* quantum w/spoiler
rubber strathon 8* with the baffle pushed all the way up
and finally metal lawton 8* bb with fibrcell
try those!!!

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 Apr 30th 9:24 AM
... and I heard he played plastic Bari-brand reeds too. But I'm not sure where I heard it.

Some of his pics look like he is playing a black HR Lawton. Could have been the Strathon, but i did not see the hump on the top of the MP.

I had a Strathon 9 that measured .140", so that 8* is probably a .135". The Lawton would be .130". The Quantum seems small unless it is an old numbering system. Runyon claims to be using the same gages as they always have. There are no star facings today, but a 9.5 would only be a .100".

MojoBari
User ID: 1195644 Apr 30th 7:56 PM
I just looked at my "What It Takes" CD (1991). Looks like it could be the metal Quantum (with a Rovner lig). Silver plated Yamaha Bari.

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 May 1st 8:14 AM
(May not be silver plated. Could be photo lighting.)

Bari Martin
User ID: 9579203 May 1st 3:32 PM
The ideal bari piece for me would have a deep, booming low register with an edgier projection in the high register. My '60s Rubber Berg 130/1 M provides this (with great intonation), but I got similar results with a Runyon Custom Spoiler.

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 May 2nd 7:57 AM
Bari Martin: How big was the Runyon?

Bari Martin
User ID: 9579203 May 2nd 8:41 AM
The Custom Spoiler was a #10, but I will order a #11 next time - the chart showed the #11 at .125". The clear Amber looks great with the old orange Martin lacquer. Changing the spoiler in and out is a hassle on the gig, but it really makes a big difference. I also tried a metal Quantum spoiler #10 which had a great sound but threw the high notes sharp. If you can play the metal Quantum with no problems, I've got to tell you it's a monster bari piece. I would be using it today if I had a modern bari. Very similar to the old Brilhart Level Air and even has the replaceable plastic beak, but it has greater projection than the Brilhart. The plastic Custom is smoother and more refined than the Q, but delivers plenty of low end and upper register projection. For a blues/rock gig you probably would use the spoiler, but it only takes a few seconds to change it out if you don't mind taking your reed off between songs. Since this is a potential disaster, I would try to minimize spoiler changes on the fly.

Next 20 Messages

AaronQ	Apr 27th 7:14 PM Bari players... for jazz, do u usually like a darker or brighter tone?
jmarshall83 User ID: 2309834	Apr 27th 8:12 PM As a pro bari player I must insist that real bari players sound Big and thick. Not neccesarily thin and bright; just big and bright. The whole Gerry Mulligan approach just ain't gonna cut it on bari. A dark sound will translate to dull and boring due to the size of the horn.
AaronQ	Apr 27th 9:19 PM funny. that's what im goin' for... but right now i've got more of that light mulligan sound... hey, what's your setup? im playing an usa made selmer, i cant recall the model. and a rousseau jdx? mouthpiece usually w/ LaVoz medium hards or medium (depends on what's at school). yea.. im a high school player, and im a decent sax player... i just dont like the tone i get when i play. u have any tips on get a thicker sound? change in mpc...reeds...ligature?? anything tips will be appreciated. thanks.
Merlin User ID: 8931733	Apr 27th 10:59 PM Lose the Rousseau JDX if you want to get a thicker sound. Try a Vandoren B75.
AaronQ	Apr 27th 11:00 PM really? will that help my sound significantly?
Merlin User ID: 8931733	Apr 27th 11:08 PM I played a JDX8 for years. In order to get the thicker tone I was after, I ended up playing too hard a setup. What I needed was a piece w/less baffle, and a nice big chamber. The Vandoren fit the bill, and I've been using it for the past dozen years.
paulwl User ID: 9816503	Apr 27th 11:19 PM >> As a pro bari player I must insist that real bari players sound Big and thick. Not neccesarily thin and bright; just big and bright. The whole Gerry Mulligan approach just ain't gonna cut it on bari. A dark sound will translate to dull and boring due to the size of the horn. << I love Gerry's playing, but you're right in one respect: he probably wouldn't have lasted long in today's average session big band or pop horn section. The bari has a very important, and very well defined, role in those groups. Not the place to be the individual that he was.
MojoBari User ID: 1195644	Apr 27th 11:37 PM There is no single set-up solution for everyone. I like a lot of baffle on bari. I can play it dark or bright. Try some Runyons.
jmarshall83 User ID: 2309834	Apr 28th 12:16 AM I use a link metal 9* m-piece and I have put a little bit of baffle in it; just enough to get altissimo out and still play smooth for the ladies Big changer + medium High Baffle = a great mpiece. e-mail me @ jmarshall83hotmail.com anyone w/ Qs
RS User ID: 0610144	Apr 28th 12:11 PM I like a dark rich sound but I find that bari needs some edge to cut through a loud big band so I use a high baffle piece--RIA 10* with one of Mojo's wedge-in baffles. Good edge and power with a little warmth to the sound. But nobody has ever mistaken me for Harry Carney. Harry had both power and richness but there was only one Harry Carney. Most of us mortals need a little edge to be heard in a loud setting.
Bill User ID: 0512724	Apr 29th 2:27 AM RS. Are you getting anywhere close to Harry Carney's sound??? I agree there is only one Carney. I've been trying for years to get close to his sound. Any ideas???
RS User ID: 0554384	Apr 29th 11:29 AM Bill--my sound is considerably edgier (and less rich) than Carney's. I use a large tip piece with extra baffle which is good for volume and power but maybe less good for richness and tone quality. I think a smaller tip, less baffle, and a harder reed might be the way to go in getting the richness of Carney's sound. Plus Carney's natural ability would help.
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	Apr 29th 2:23 PM Bill and RS, I have made the switch to a RIA 8. Was playing a JVW C*. Been experimenting with an older HR Berg .110 too, but the RIA with some softer reeds has given me a bit more richness to my sound. I'm looking for more of a Brignola sound (yeah, me and everyone else...)
jmatshall83 User ID: 2309834	Apr 29th 2:36 PM I knew nick just before he got sick and his etups were as follows: metal runyon 9* quantum w/spoiler rubber strathon 8* with the baffle pushed all the way up and finally metal lawton 8* bb with fibrcell try those!!!
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	Apr 30th 9:24 AM ... and I heard he played plastic Bari-brand reeds too. But I'm not sure where I heard it. Some of his pics look like he is playing a black HR Lawton. Could have been the Strathon, but i did not see the hump on the top of the MP. I had a Strathon 9 that measured .140", so that 8* is probably a .135". The Lawton would be .130". The Quantum seems small unless it is an old numbering system. Runyon claims to be using the same gages as they always have. There are no star facings today, but a 9.5 would only be a .100".
MojoBari User ID: 1195644	Apr 30th 7:56 PM I just looked at my "What It Takes" CD (1991). Looks like it could be the metal Quantum (with a Rovner lig). Silver plated Yamaha Bari.
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	May 1st 8:14 AM (May not be silver plated. Could be photo lighting.)
Bari Martin User ID: 9579203	May 1st 3:32 PM The ideal bari piece for me would have a deep, booming low register with an edgier projection in the high register. My '60s Rubber Berg 130/1 M provides this (with great intonation), but I got similar results with a Runyon Custom Spoiler.
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	May 2nd 7:57 AM Bari Martin: How big was the Runyon?
Bari Martin User ID: 9579203	May 2nd 8:41 AM The Custom Spoiler was a #10, but I will order a #11 next time - the chart showed the #11 at .125". The clear Amber looks great with the old orange Martin lacquer. Changing the spoiler in and out is a hassle on the gig, but it really makes a big difference. I also tried a metal Quantum spoiler #10 which had a great sound but threw the high notes sharp. If you can play the metal Quantum with no problems, I've got to tell you it's a monster bari piece. I would be using it today if I had a modern bari. Very similar to the old Brilhart Level Air and even has the replaceable plastic beak, but it has greater projection than the Brilhart. The plastic Custom is smoother and more refined than the Q, but delivers plenty of low end and upper register projection. For a blues/rock gig you probably would use the spoiler, but it only takes a few seconds to change it out if you don't mind taking your reed off between songs. Since this is a potential disaster, I would try to minimize spoiler changes on the fly.