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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / The Martin arrived...

Next 20 Messages

manofsteel
User ID: 6110683 May 7th 10:07 PM
Okay, got the Martin in from Steve Goodson today....The box looked like it had been dropped off the plane onto the runway. I was worried, but thankfully the horn made it thru okay.

My setup: Metal Ria 7, alexander DC 2-1/2 reeds. Steve stripped the lac and cryoed this thing in addition to the black goatskin pads and the big noyeks. The brace on the neck is also missing/removed?

Holy SH#T! The sound coming out of this thing is outrageous! Flat out, bona fide, OUTRAGEOUS! Low C to Low Bb is packed with heavy, resonant, oomph. I can't help but smile when the sound comes out! :^) :^) :^) The sound is so full and rich, and oh yeah, loud as all hell if I want! It really makes my Yamaha 52 feel like a student horn sound-wise. I can't say enough about the overall quality of the tone, but...

...the ergonomics are killing me! The Bb spatula seems like it was meant for a guy with normal sized hands but with a 1 inch long pinkie. And I think I'll need hydraulic assist to operate Low C#. Steve built up the keys with a black putty to make it easier to use these keys. It's possible I'm not using them the way they were intended. Now I know I'm just getting used to the keywork, but at this point, I just can't see how I could switch back and forth from my SML tenor or VI alto to this.

And now that I know I can make a bari sound like a BARI, I know I can't go back to the Yamaha. Anyone know of a beast that sounds like this but has better keywork?

Woe is me.

Bootman
User ID: 1676554 May 8th 2:09 AM
Keep at it, the Fingering will get easier with practise. Go for the sound first, keywork second because youcan always overcome unfamiliarity of keywork with practise.

Bari Martin
User ID: 9579203 May 8th 9:58 AM
manofsteel; If a bari were to be made that felt like a Selmer but played and sounded like a Martin, guys would be fighting over them. The LH cluster can be lightened by working with the spring tension, but it's a trial and error thing best left to someone who knows what they're doing. Maybe Steve will have a suggestion for you. How is the intonation in the palm keys with that RIA? Many set-ups like this will go sharp up high. Be careful of the bare neck with no brace - don't put any downward pressure on it when playing.

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 May 8th 1:38 PM
Bari Martin - regarding the Marting sounding Selmer, I agree, it'd be a big seller indeed. I didn't get a chance to put the horn against the tuner, I was having too much fun honking! But thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out tonight.

Bootman - I normally agree with your mantra of go for sound, but I don't know if I could EVER get used to this...I think a lot has to do with the built up keys Steve has added. I think it might be for someone with different size hands than mine. But I will give it as much time as Steve allows.

Italian
User ID: 1084044 May 8th 1:41 PM
Steel,you're right.You can't go back to Yamaha ,never more.Maybe a Conn is the beast you are looking for,but you have a good horn now.Just listen to Bootman,and good luck

super20dan
User ID: 7705853 May 8th 5:49 PM
king super20!

mark m
User ID: 8708523 May 9th 12:09 PM
Manofsteel, I have a The Martin coming from Steve also, without the risers. Figured I'll see what it's like before I mess with it - I haven't held this horn yet so I'm curious to see just how odd the keywork is.

Glad to hear you like the sound. I can't wait...and very curious about the ergo's. In any case, Congrats!

Bootman
User ID: 1676554 May 9th 5:14 PM
Manofsteel,
Try a Chu Baritone if the Martin Pinky cluster is to heavy. I have no such problems with my Chu Baritone, it is very easy to play in this area and the sound is bigger than Ben Hurr. Simply put, out of all the horns I own this is the last one that would be sold, it is that good.

It is a 219K Chu in silver plate, it blows anything away including Super 20's.

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 May 9th 7:15 PM
Super20dan - yes, I've heard good things about these horns, but they are pricey! I almost had one with silver neck for $1800 but as I was dealing with the owner, he sold it!!!

Bootman - I know the Chu is mighty, but I'd always worried the ergonomics would be even more primative as it's even older than the Martin. You've played both...is the low C# on the Martin truly difficult to acutate? Or do I need to take my lt pinky to the weight room?

Lastly, anyone ever find a comparable horn soundwise to a Martin with modern keywork? The Selmers I've tried fall somewhere between the Yamaha and this Martin...Keilworth comparisons?

Mark M - if you can handle the keywork and yours sounds as good as this one (the only diff will be that Steve stripped the lacquer off mine and cryoed it) you'll love it.

soreliprick
User ID: 0366544 May 9th 10:59 PM
manofsteel - first, change your name, you flabby girlyman, yeah, to 'flabbygirlyman' - then get thee to a gym. I've got this ugly '37 searchlight here that I only paid $600 for on ebay and my C# is light as a feather! Of course I'm going to the spa 3 times a week just to hold it up without a back brace and one of those girly rolling stands. It probably helps that I've been playing bass and guitar for 30 years, but my pinky table is like buttah...like buttah.

soreliprick
User ID: 0366544 May 9th 11:00 PM
Oh, and being 6'5" doesn't hurt.....

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 May 10th 2:25 PM
Soreliprick - the name actually refers to my line of work. I own a steel fabrication business. But I probably could use some pinky excercises.

I just went to the chiropractor myself. The Bari does put a strain on the neck/back area, esp during the 2-3 hour gigs.

mark m.
User ID: 1195644 May 10th 2:29 PM
Guess it's time to start using my kid's weight machine... my pinkies are pretty tough tough.

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 May 10th 2:34 PM
BTW, does anyone know if "the Martin" bari necks came with a wire brace under the neck? The one I have looks like it had one at some point and then was removed. But other The Martin Baris on eBay dont have them either. I wonder if someone just put one on for some additional support.

mark m.
User ID: 1195644 May 10th 2:35 PM
Meant to say "tough though". kindof a finger-twister.. "tough tough" is tough too.

Bari Martin
User ID: 9579203 May 10th 3:31 PM
'The Martin Baritone' neck has a regular sheet brass brace on the inside neck curve, like an alto neck. Yours was probably removed to enhance the neck. This neck is one of the longest bari necks ever made, so it has more leverage, resulting in higher bending force. I'd recommend having a two-point strut soldered on to brace it (as on the Selmer 'Silver Plus' tenor neck). This would be easy to fabricate and attach, and would have a minimal effect on the resonance of the neck.

Bari Martin
User ID: 9579203 May 10th 3:34 PM
'The Martin Baritone' neck has a regular sheet brass brace on the inside neck curve, like an alto neck. Yours was probably removed to enhance the neck. This neck is one of the longest bari necks ever made, so it has more leverage, resulting in higher bending force. I'd recommend having a two-point strut soldered on to brace it (as on the Selmer 'Silver Plus' tenor neck). This would be easy to fabricate and attach, and would have a minimal effect on the resonance of the neck. You will probably never find an original brace to use, and spare necks are rare (an understatement) although there was one on ebay last year. I'll take a pic of my original neck and post a URL for it this weekend so you can see what it's supposed to look like.

super20dan
User ID: 7705853 May 10th 5:40 PM
super20 bari saxes are not only expencive but seem to be pretty rare. i got lucky on mine and paid $900 for it . it was supposed to be a back up for my selmer but after one gig it got promoted and the selmer demoted to back up. these horns out power every bari ever made and have decent but not great modern key work. also these horns are lighter than most . i strongly recommend a harness for any one playing bari ,standing or sitting,girlyman or heeman

BrianA
User ID: 9774843 May 10th 5:57 PM
Funny statement about the King Super 20 bari "outpowering" everything.. they were so unpopular that very few seem to have been made and I have never played one yet that I thought was very good. As a matter of fact the only good sounding one I ever heard was as a kid when I used to see Charlie Ventura play one and he even said he got it for promoting them not because it was very good..(he was with the Gene Krupa quartet at the Metropole in NYC at night and I was in a R&R band there during the daytime so we used to talk a bit) I have yet to hear or try one that has been in the same league as the Martin, the Conn 12M naked ladies or a decently set up Aristocrat.. As to the keys, Steve Goodson is one of the few really good guys in the business and he plays the same model himself, just write to him and he will steer you in the right direction even if it means some customizing for you to make it livable.. I have owned and used The Martin bari and never found the same troubles you describe and yes my gigs are almost all doubling and the Martin was very friendly for that because of the relatively modern Selmer like keyboard and ergonomics. .maybe just needs some of those old springs back on it instead of those good fancy ones Steve puts on with the expensive black pad overhauls.. try him before listening to anyone here, including yours truly..
good luck...
Brian

super20dan
User ID: 7705853 May 11th 6:48 AM
martin = selmer like keywork ? hardly!

Next 20 Messages

manofsteel User ID: 6110683	May 7th 10:07 PM Okay, got the Martin in from Steve Goodson today....The box looked like it had been dropped off the plane onto the runway. I was worried, but thankfully the horn made it thru okay. My setup: Metal Ria 7, alexander DC 2-1/2 reeds. Steve stripped the lac and cryoed this thing in addition to the black goatskin pads and the big noyeks. The brace on the neck is also missing/removed? Holy SH#T! The sound coming out of this thing is outrageous! Flat out, bona fide, OUTRAGEOUS! Low C to Low Bb is packed with heavy, resonant, oomph. I can't help but smile when the sound comes out! :^) :^) :^) The sound is so full and rich, and oh yeah, loud as all hell if I want! It really makes my Yamaha 52 feel like a student horn sound-wise. I can't say enough about the overall quality of the tone, but... ...the ergonomics are killing me! The Bb spatula seems like it was meant for a guy with normal sized hands but with a 1 inch long pinkie. And I think I'll need hydraulic assist to operate Low C#. Steve built up the keys with a black putty to make it easier to use these keys. It's possible I'm not using them the way they were intended. Now I know I'm just getting used to the keywork, but at this point, I just can't see how I could switch back and forth from my SML tenor or VI alto to this. And now that I know I can make a bari sound like a BARI, I know I can't go back to the Yamaha. Anyone know of a beast that sounds like this but has better keywork? Woe is me.
Bootman User ID: 1676554	May 8th 2:09 AM Keep at it, the Fingering will get easier with practise. Go for the sound first, keywork second because youcan always overcome unfamiliarity of keywork with practise.
Bari Martin User ID: 9579203	May 8th 9:58 AM manofsteel; If a bari were to be made that felt like a Selmer but played and sounded like a Martin, guys would be fighting over them. The LH cluster can be lightened by working with the spring tension, but it's a trial and error thing best left to someone who knows what they're doing. Maybe Steve will have a suggestion for you. How is the intonation in the palm keys with that RIA? Many set-ups like this will go sharp up high. Be careful of the bare neck with no brace - don't put any downward pressure on it when playing.
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	May 8th 1:38 PM Bari Martin - regarding the Marting sounding Selmer, I agree, it'd be a big seller indeed. I didn't get a chance to put the horn against the tuner, I was having too much fun honking! But thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out tonight. Bootman - I normally agree with your mantra of go for sound, but I don't know if I could EVER get used to this...I think a lot has to do with the built up keys Steve has added. I think it might be for someone with different size hands than mine. But I will give it as much time as Steve allows.
Italian User ID: 1084044	May 8th 1:41 PM Steel,you're right.You can't go back to Yamaha ,never more.Maybe a Conn is the beast you are looking for,but you have a good horn now.Just listen to Bootman,and good luck
super20dan User ID: 7705853	May 8th 5:49 PM king super20!
mark m User ID: 8708523	May 9th 12:09 PM Manofsteel, I have a The Martin coming from Steve also, without the risers. Figured I'll see what it's like before I mess with it - I haven't held this horn yet so I'm curious to see just how odd the keywork is. Glad to hear you like the sound. I can't wait...and very curious about the ergo's. In any case, Congrats!
Bootman User ID: 1676554	May 9th 5:14 PM Manofsteel, Try a Chu Baritone if the Martin Pinky cluster is to heavy. I have no such problems with my Chu Baritone, it is very easy to play in this area and the sound is bigger than Ben Hurr. Simply put, out of all the horns I own this is the last one that would be sold, it is that good. It is a 219K Chu in silver plate, it blows anything away including Super 20's.
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	May 9th 7:15 PM Super20dan - yes, I've heard good things about these horns, but they are pricey! I almost had one with silver neck for $1800 but as I was dealing with the owner, he sold it!!! Bootman - I know the Chu is mighty, but I'd always worried the ergonomics would be even more primative as it's even older than the Martin. You've played both...is the low C# on the Martin truly difficult to acutate? Or do I need to take my lt pinky to the weight room? Lastly, anyone ever find a comparable horn soundwise to a Martin with modern keywork? The Selmers I've tried fall somewhere between the Yamaha and this Martin...Keilworth comparisons? Mark M - if you can handle the keywork and yours sounds as good as this one (the only diff will be that Steve stripped the lacquer off mine and cryoed it) you'll love it.
soreliprick User ID: 0366544	May 9th 10:59 PM manofsteel - first, change your name, you flabby girlyman, yeah, to 'flabbygirlyman' - then get thee to a gym. I've got this ugly '37 searchlight here that I only paid $600 for on ebay and my C# is light as a feather! Of course I'm going to the spa 3 times a week just to hold it up without a back brace and one of those girly rolling stands. It probably helps that I've been playing bass and guitar for 30 years, but my pinky table is like buttah...like buttah.
soreliprick User ID: 0366544	May 9th 11:00 PM Oh, and being 6'5" doesn't hurt.....
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	May 10th 2:25 PM Soreliprick - the name actually refers to my line of work. I own a steel fabrication business. But I probably could use some pinky excercises. I just went to the chiropractor myself. The Bari does put a strain on the neck/back area, esp during the 2-3 hour gigs.
mark m. User ID: 1195644	May 10th 2:29 PM Guess it's time to start using my kid's weight machine... my pinkies are pretty tough tough.
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	May 10th 2:34 PM BTW, does anyone know if "the Martin" bari necks came with a wire brace under the neck? The one I have looks like it had one at some point and then was removed. But other The Martin Baris on eBay dont have them either. I wonder if someone just put one on for some additional support.
mark m. User ID: 1195644	May 10th 2:35 PM Meant to say "tough though". kindof a finger-twister.. "tough tough" is tough too.
Bari Martin User ID: 9579203	May 10th 3:31 PM 'The Martin Baritone' neck has a regular sheet brass brace on the inside neck curve, like an alto neck. Yours was probably removed to enhance the neck. This neck is one of the longest bari necks ever made, so it has more leverage, resulting in higher bending force. I'd recommend having a two-point strut soldered on to brace it (as on the Selmer 'Silver Plus' tenor neck). This would be easy to fabricate and attach, and would have a minimal effect on the resonance of the neck.
Bari Martin User ID: 9579203	May 10th 3:34 PM 'The Martin Baritone' neck has a regular sheet brass brace on the inside neck curve, like an alto neck. Yours was probably removed to enhance the neck. This neck is one of the longest bari necks ever made, so it has more leverage, resulting in higher bending force. I'd recommend having a two-point strut soldered on to brace it (as on the Selmer 'Silver Plus' tenor neck). This would be easy to fabricate and attach, and would have a minimal effect on the resonance of the neck. You will probably never find an original brace to use, and spare necks are rare (an understatement) although there was one on ebay last year. I'll take a pic of my original neck and post a URL for it this weekend so you can see what it's supposed to look like.
super20dan User ID: 7705853	May 10th 5:40 PM super20 bari saxes are not only expencive but seem to be pretty rare. i got lucky on mine and paid $900 for it . it was supposed to be a back up for my selmer but after one gig it got promoted and the selmer demoted to back up. these horns out power every bari ever made and have decent but not great modern key work. also these horns are lighter than most . i strongly recommend a harness for any one playing bari ,standing or sitting,girlyman or heeman
BrianA User ID: 9774843	May 10th 5:57 PM Funny statement about the King Super 20 bari "outpowering" everything.. they were so unpopular that very few seem to have been made and I have never played one yet that I thought was very good. As a matter of fact the only good sounding one I ever heard was as a kid when I used to see Charlie Ventura play one and he even said he got it for promoting them not because it was very good..(he was with the Gene Krupa quartet at the Metropole in NYC at night and I was in a R&R band there during the daytime so we used to talk a bit) I have yet to hear or try one that has been in the same league as the Martin, the Conn 12M naked ladies or a decently set up Aristocrat.. As to the keys, Steve Goodson is one of the few really good guys in the business and he plays the same model himself, just write to him and he will steer you in the right direction even if it means some customizing for you to make it livable.. I have owned and used The Martin bari and never found the same troubles you describe and yes my gigs are almost all doubling and the Martin was very friendly for that because of the relatively modern Selmer like keyboard and ergonomics. .maybe just needs some of those old springs back on it instead of those good fancy ones Steve puts on with the expensive black pad overhauls.. try him before listening to anyone here, including yours truly.. good luck... Brian
super20dan User ID: 7705853	May 11th 6:48 AM martin = selmer like keywork ? hardly!