Sax on the Web

Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / Super 20 Bari opinions please

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 Feb 11th 4:09 PM
I've seen a few King Super 20 bari's for sale. Some with the Solid silver neck, some with brass.

I'm looking to pick up a bari and was wondering what people's opinions of these horns are.

Specifically, does the silver neck make much difference in overall sound? If so, what does it do?

Also, are the mechanical/quality differences between Eastlake vs Cleveland made horns?

Thanks!

super20dan
User ID: 7705853 Feb 11th 5:45 PM
i bought a super 20 bari (all brass& east lake)to use as a backup for my mk6 but after i gig my selmer became the backup! holy cow what a sound! all other baris (including the famous conn 12m) pale in comparison to this monster.with a high baffel mpc it overpowers the whole sax section but works well with any mpc

jmarshall83
User ID: 7761613 Feb 11th 6:00 PM
Amen to that.
I am a proud owner of a super 20 bari and i agree totally. I also own a mark VI /LOW-A AND anytime i want to be heard which is all the time, i will play my super 20. The kings are the only bari with true projecting power. I can also be silky smooth in order to get the ladies.

feel free to e mail me at Jmarshall83@hotmail.com if you have anymore Q's about the super 20 or any other bari as i am a Professional bari player.

super20dan
User ID: 7705853 Feb 12th 6:23 PM
no one else play one of these conn-eating monsters? heres my mpc set ups legit selmer s80c* (brought this sax to community band onece and the director gave me dirty looks all night) big band runyon custom 4 (with plasticote reed) or vintage rubber berg 95/1 ,rock&roll metal berg 110/1 or ponzel hr custom

Bootman
User ID: 2964484 Feb 12th 10:32 PM
A good choice. It is also not quite entirely true as to the Super 20 being the only Bari with projection and power. Try a Vintage Conn (late 20's), it will do the same trick and overplay the entire section and band. It will also out play a trumpet player and muscle it's way through any situation.

MusicMan
User ID: 0464054 Feb 13th 4:34 PM
I played on a Super 20 Slersonic (neck & bell) in school. It was a great horn (aside from the typical school horn problems). The stock King MP that was with it was similar to a HR Link as I remember. It could really project.

David T.
User ID: 9941493 Feb 22nd 6:36 PM
Back off Bootman, you Conn-aholic (Hi, my name is David and I'm a King-aholic)
<personal opinion>
#include bias.c
GET THE KING
I have a Super20, silver neck that I've had since high school. Got it overhauled with sterling silver resonators a couple of years back, and sent out the Berg to JVW for some tweaking, and nothing I've played compares to it. Our man in Oz will tell youthe Conn thing is happening, but when you think Mulligan, do you think projection, or that laid-back-west-coast-thing?
:-)
</personal opinion>
A super20 is a fantastic baritone, silver neck even better. More focus, etc. etc. Budget-wise, you can pick up a Conn for quite a bit less, IIRC, and they are also excellent horns. Truth be told, rumor circulates the Martin baris can kick some serious as well.

MPL
User ID: 0122954 Feb 22nd 6:55 PM
Beware of the "laid-back-west-coast" label attached to Conns. Gary Smulyan plays a vintage Conn (12M, I think, based on the pictures) with a big Link and he most certainly does NOT sound laid back!

David T.
User ID: 9941493 Feb 22nd 7:00 PM
MPL - sorry - that swipe was a joke directed at Bootman - I've heard mp3s of his playing and his sound is huge! on a Conn. thought the smiley (:) ) was enough

MPL
User ID: 0122954 Feb 22nd 7:47 PM
Bootman is indeed a Conn-aholic! He's been quite helpful as I've been test driving a couple of different Conns. I'm finding that like a 60s muscle car, the Conn 12M doesn't really like to be handled quietly but prefers full pedal-to-the-metal power all the time! Is the Super 20 the same way or can it whisper too?

Bootman
User ID: 9495963 Feb 22nd 11:19 PM
The old 20's and 30's Martin Baris are indeed horns of extreme honk ability. Big thunderous sounding things they are.

David T.
User ID: 9941493 Feb 23rd 8:21 AM
MPL -
I wouldn't know about the whisper part, I never tried :-)
Seriously though my setup doesn't exactly lend itself to sedate playing, and when I do play bari it's either in a horn section, playing R&B or jump, or solo R&R ala Morphine, et. al., so mellow isn't required.

super20dan
User ID: 7705853 Feb 23rd 5:14 PM
it can be done .i played mine in a sax quartet and used a selmer s80c*

Bari Martin
User ID: 9579203 Feb 25th 3:28 PM
From pictures I've seen, the Super 20 bari seems to be essentially a modified Zephyr (both bell keys on the right side, with a fabricated wire key guard made to resemble the tenor key guard). The Zephyr baris also have the huge, vintage sound, and are a lot cheaper than a Super 20. 'The Martin' baris (the last model, starting about #150,000) are also great, and the 'Magna' model had the low A available. The low A Magna has a one-piece bell rather than a spliced-in extension, and a unique low A key for the RH thumb.

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 Feb 25th 3:34 PM
Alas, the fellow selling the Super 20 offered the bari to another guy. He told me if he didn't take it this past Sat. it was mine. Unfortunately he walked out of the store with it...

It's pretty damn hard to compete with a warm body in a store vs faceless cybershopper...even though I did talk with the owner via telephone.

C'est la vie. It looks like it's going to be the Couf Superba 2. I'm putting the check in the mail today.

George Briscoe
User ID: 1076954 Mar 23rd 4:59 AM
Jerome Richardson played a Conn bari when he was with Mingus in the early 60s. Listen to the track "Hora Decubitus" to hear what a powerful sound it can make! I'm glad that I didn't know that it was a Conn until I had been playing my Low "A" Selmer for 20 years, 'cuz I learned to modify my mouthpiece, adjust my airstream and make that same sound with what I had!

Yours in baridom,

George :^)>

Bari Martin
User ID: 1404584 Mar 23rd 9:21 AM
George; You said a lot with that post - in the pre-internet days, we seldom had any idea of what set-up a famous player used to get a particular sound, and we just worked our butts off to get it out of what we had. In the process, we usually developed our own sound. In short, we learned how to play like our favorites rather than concentrating on equipment. Now, the situation is reversed - young players find out first what their idols are playing, then go from there. I wonder what the long term effects of this will be?

DougR
User ID: 9892733 Apr 11th 3:24 PM
Heres one for sale
http://music.loot.com/scripts/lootsite.dll?Search&FirstClass=2130000-2139999&Location=1048575

George Briscoe
User ID: 8151383 Apr 11th 11:45 PM
Well said, Bari Martin! Yeah, too many young guys seek out the same equipment as their heroes and all wind up having the same sound (ex: the Coltrane tenor tone clones). It took me a number of years to grow out of that stage myself. When I realized that I'd never be the next Trane, Dolphy, or Pepper Adams, I just worked on sounding like George Briscoe. It seems to work for me!

Merlin
User ID: 8931733 Apr 15th 6:03 PM
Or worse, guys will seek out the same gear as their hero plays, and find that they CAN'T get the sound they're looking for.

manofsteel User ID: 9084913	Feb 11th 4:09 PM I've seen a few King Super 20 bari's for sale. Some with the Solid silver neck, some with brass. I'm looking to pick up a bari and was wondering what people's opinions of these horns are. Specifically, does the silver neck make much difference in overall sound? If so, what does it do? Also, are the mechanical/quality differences between Eastlake vs Cleveland made horns? Thanks!
super20dan User ID: 7705853	Feb 11th 5:45 PM i bought a super 20 bari (all brass& east lake)to use as a backup for my mk6 but after i gig my selmer became the backup! holy cow what a sound! all other baris (including the famous conn 12m) pale in comparison to this monster.with a high baffel mpc it overpowers the whole sax section but works well with any mpc
jmarshall83 User ID: 7761613	Feb 11th 6:00 PM Amen to that. I am a proud owner of a super 20 bari and i agree totally. I also own a mark VI /LOW-A AND anytime i want to be heard which is all the time, i will play my super 20. The kings are the only bari with true projecting power. I can also be silky smooth in order to get the ladies. feel free to e mail me at Jmarshall83@hotmail.com if you have anymore Q's about the super 20 or any other bari as i am a Professional bari player.
super20dan User ID: 7705853	Feb 12th 6:23 PM no one else play one of these conn-eating monsters? heres my mpc set ups legit selmer s80c* (brought this sax to community band onece and the director gave me dirty looks all night) big band runyon custom 4 (with plasticote reed) or vintage rubber berg 95/1 ,rock&roll metal berg 110/1 or ponzel hr custom
Bootman User ID: 2964484	Feb 12th 10:32 PM A good choice. It is also not quite entirely true as to the Super 20 being the only Bari with projection and power. Try a Vintage Conn (late 20's), it will do the same trick and overplay the entire section and band. It will also out play a trumpet player and muscle it's way through any situation.
MusicMan User ID: 0464054	Feb 13th 4:34 PM I played on a Super 20 Slersonic (neck & bell) in school. It was a great horn (aside from the typical school horn problems). The stock King MP that was with it was similar to a HR Link as I remember. It could really project.
David T. User ID: 9941493	Feb 22nd 6:36 PM Back off Bootman, you Conn-aholic (Hi, my name is David and I'm a King-aholic) <personal opinion> #include bias.c GET THE KING I have a Super20, silver neck that I've had since high school. Got it overhauled with sterling silver resonators a couple of years back, and sent out the Berg to JVW for some tweaking, and nothing I've played compares to it. Our man in Oz will tell youthe Conn thing is happening, but when you think Mulligan, do you think projection, or that laid-back-west-coast-thing? :-) </personal opinion> A super20 is a fantastic baritone, silver neck even better. More focus, etc. etc. Budget-wise, you can pick up a Conn for quite a bit less, IIRC, and they are also excellent horns. Truth be told, rumor circulates the Martin baris can kick some serious as well.
MPL User ID: 0122954	Feb 22nd 6:55 PM Beware of the "laid-back-west-coast" label attached to Conns. Gary Smulyan plays a vintage Conn (12M, I think, based on the pictures) with a big Link and he most certainly does NOT sound laid back!
David T. User ID: 9941493	Feb 22nd 7:00 PM MPL - sorry - that swipe was a joke directed at Bootman - I've heard mp3s of his playing and his sound is huge! on a Conn. thought the smiley (:) ) was enough
MPL User ID: 0122954	Feb 22nd 7:47 PM Bootman is indeed a Conn-aholic! He's been quite helpful as I've been test driving a couple of different Conns. I'm finding that like a 60s muscle car, the Conn 12M doesn't really like to be handled quietly but prefers full pedal-to-the-metal power all the time! Is the Super 20 the same way or can it whisper too?
Bootman User ID: 9495963	Feb 22nd 11:19 PM The old 20's and 30's Martin Baris are indeed horns of extreme honk ability. Big thunderous sounding things they are.
David T. User ID: 9941493	Feb 23rd 8:21 AM MPL - I wouldn't know about the whisper part, I never tried :-) Seriously though my setup doesn't exactly lend itself to sedate playing, and when I do play bari it's either in a horn section, playing R&B or jump, or solo R&R ala Morphine, et. al., so mellow isn't required.
super20dan User ID: 7705853	Feb 23rd 5:14 PM it can be done .i played mine in a sax quartet and used a selmer s80c*
Bari Martin User ID: 9579203	Feb 25th 3:28 PM From pictures I've seen, the Super 20 bari seems to be essentially a modified Zephyr (both bell keys on the right side, with a fabricated wire key guard made to resemble the tenor key guard). The Zephyr baris also have the huge, vintage sound, and are a lot cheaper than a Super 20. 'The Martin' baris (the last model, starting about #150,000) are also great, and the 'Magna' model had the low A available. The low A Magna has a one-piece bell rather than a spliced-in extension, and a unique low A key for the RH thumb.
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	Feb 25th 3:34 PM Alas, the fellow selling the Super 20 offered the bari to another guy. He told me if he didn't take it this past Sat. it was mine. Unfortunately he walked out of the store with it... It's pretty damn hard to compete with a warm body in a store vs faceless cybershopper...even though I did talk with the owner via telephone. C'est la vie. It looks like it's going to be the Couf Superba 2. I'm putting the check in the mail today.
George Briscoe User ID: 1076954	Mar 23rd 4:59 AM Jerome Richardson played a Conn bari when he was with Mingus in the early 60s. Listen to the track "Hora Decubitus" to hear what a powerful sound it can make! I'm glad that I didn't know that it was a Conn until I had been playing my Low "A" Selmer for 20 years, 'cuz I learned to modify my mouthpiece, adjust my airstream and make that same sound with what I had! Yours in baridom, George :^)>
Bari Martin User ID: 1404584	Mar 23rd 9:21 AM George; You said a lot with that post - in the pre-internet days, we seldom had any idea of what set-up a famous player used to get a particular sound, and we just worked our butts off to get it out of what we had. In the process, we usually developed our own sound. In short, we learned how to play like our favorites rather than concentrating on equipment. Now, the situation is reversed - young players find out first what their idols are playing, then go from there. I wonder what the long term effects of this will be?
DougR User ID: 9892733	Apr 11th 3:24 PM Heres one for sale http://music.loot.com/scripts/lootsite.dll?Search&FirstClass=2130000-2139999&Location=1048575
George Briscoe User ID: 8151383	Apr 11th 11:45 PM Well said, Bari Martin! Yeah, too many young guys seek out the same equipment as their heroes and all wind up having the same sound (ex: the Coltrane tenor tone clones). It took me a number of years to grow out of that stage myself. When I realized that I'd never be the next Trane, Dolphy, or Pepper Adams, I just worked on sounding like George Briscoe. It seems to work for me!
Merlin User ID: 8931733	Apr 15th 6:03 PM Or worse, guys will seek out the same gear as their hero plays, and find that they CAN'T get the sound they're looking for.