Sax on the Web

Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / SML Bari's - a casual opinion

StevenW
User ID: 0833354 Oct 4th 3:27 AM
In response to a question in the BASS Sax thread in the Baritone Section:

"Dr. Inconspicuous
User ID: 0610144 Oct 3rd 6:41 PM

asked:

So what's your opinion of the SML bari? I've never been able to get a real review. "

I've ended up with Morgan's old SML Bari - hooked up an Otto Link Super Tone Master and found it to be a real bell ringer! I'm coming back to playing regularly after a long hiatus and am approaching perhaps the %40 point in getting things back together, so temper my opinions accordingly!

This ex-Morgan SML Bari is a Bb horn, and plays very well indeed. Very free playing, expressive, rich toned, consistant... The action is fast with the only complaints being the exposed rod-work down the left-side of the horn can bind up if pulled against you. Classical work is easy, do miss low-A and high F# keywork for jazz charts.

Intonation throughout seems outstanding. Dynamic range excellent, from wispery fluffs (the "red velvet" sound) to thunder-horn it can do it! Magical the wonderful full vibrato you can irk out of it!

Still working on Altissimo that I can manage consistantly though - but its me, not the horn.

The across the break C-C#-D-Eb tonal consistantcy is a suprise, as most baritones seem to exhibit more tonal variation across the C#-D break.

Haven't played anything I'd rather have (yet?) - sold my old French Noblet Bari once I played this SML, and have compared this SML to a new Yamaha, a Mk VI and a couple other vintage horns - I'm darn pleased with this SML Bari and would rave that if the example I obtained from Morgan is representative that an SML Bari is a real unsung hero of a Baritone Sax!

Morgan has some mp3's of him playing it, if you ask him!

regards,

StevenW

StevenW
User ID: 0833354 Nov 6th 10:14 PM
Heh am I the only one playing one of these or can anyone else let us know how they are doing & feel about theirs?

J. Calhoun
User ID: 0673084 Nov 7th 12:01 PM
Sounds like you have a great find. There just can't be many of these, which is why no one is responding.

Rob V
User ID: 1815634 Nov 7th 2:47 PM
StevenW your not the only SML bai player out there. I play a nikkel plate SML bari and it sounds great it can whisper and it can roar and has great intonation and a huge projection.

Regards, Rob

saxpics
User ID: 0541004 Nov 7th 8:41 PM
Rob, if you or any of your other SML bari playing bretheren happen to have some pics of your horns, send me some: I'll post them for all to enjoy when my 'site is up and running again.

Nickle SML's, let alone baris, are rare to the point of almost non-existant.

Thanks!
Pete
saxpics@hotmail.com

Rob V
User ID: 1815634 Nov 8th 4:27 PM
Pete, I,ll have to borrow a digital camera from a friend of mine and then i'll take some pics of this existing "non-existant" bari, i'ts near mint and the thing i like most about it, (except for the sound),is the fact that i don't have to polish it to keep it bright and shiny.

greetz,
Rob

Rob V
User ID: 1815634 Nov 15th 5:50 PM
Pete, i will send you the pic's tomorrow.

Rob

StevenW
User ID: 0833354 Nov 29th 11:45 PM
Were many SML Bari's Silver Plate? Did those have Gold Wash in the Bell like avinatge horn?

regards,

StevenW

StevenW
User ID: 8722703 Jan 16th 8:42 PM
Also if anyone knows of another SML Bari (prefer needing repad and/or some work) I'd like to find a backup Bari.

regards,

Steve

saxhorn4
User ID: 9921013 Mar 28th 7:46 PM
I had a low a SML bari in my shop last year.
Wow did that thing bark...had to pull out my mark 6 to compare . Two things made me decide to keep my mark 6. First this SMl was one heavy horn, i could'nt imagine it around my neck at a 4 hour bar gig. Second was the key placement,my 6 felt alot more comfortable. But the sound still rings in my ears...it was close. I've heard the bodies at one time were made by Buffet..this one was.
Sorry, one other point the model i played was a SML King Marigoux? spell? LowA

JP
User ID: 9990163 Mar 28th 10:56 PM
Two SML baris, StevenW? It's not nice to bogart the horns :)

mark m.
User ID: 8973393 Mar 29th 10:28 AM
yes, don't bogart that bari, my friend - pass it over to me!

geez this must be a pretty old group - old as me anyway! nice to recall that little melody:)

StevenW
User ID: 8952923 Mar 29th 12:51 PM

I'm not all that keen on Low-A horns and my usual SML bari (due back today from being overhauled BTW) is a Low-Bb horn. Yet I really should have my own Low-A horn available. Not really a 'bogart'... but sure would have been nice to have had a second SML Bari while mine was away.

Hand-fit, particularly in Bari & Bass Saxes seems to be highly personal thing. I've found the SML fits my grip well, and has such a wonderful full presence to garnish complaints about "that lead bari player" from entire brass sections.

So far I've not played a Mk VI that projects like this SML, but I don't think I've played more than 10 or 12 Mk VI Bari's over the years.

I've never noticed the weight, and usually play the sax forward like a tenor - but then anything seems light after a stint with the big Bass Sax.

regards,

StevenW

StevenW
User ID: 8952923 Mar 31st 7:02 PM
An Update.

The SML Bari is back from overhaul - 30+ years of use rolled back to a popping mean machine by Sarge at World Wide Sax.

The Prestini pads are crackerjack with the whole sax playing like a big alto - fast keywork is an understatement!

The URLS:
http://www.worldwidesax.com on the left side and
http://www.worldwidesax.com/images/SMLBARI1.JPG currently have a couple photos of the replated, overhauled SML. Everything I wrote six months ago is still true plus the horn simple is playing better than I could have ever expected.

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 Apr 1st 2:19 PM
Damn SteveW!!!

You sure have a nice bevy of saxes...silver anniversary S-1 Alto, SDA tenor, SA II Sop, and the bid dawg...all silver now too?

Tell me about the silver plating...specifically how does the engraving look? It looks good from the pictures but how is the detail? Did Sarge put a clear lacquer on top of it too? Lastly, did you notice any difference in tone?

I'm still bemoaning the fact that a guy from NY didn't want to sell me his SML/Marigaux bari because he didn't want to deal with shipping it...AAAAAHHH!!!

StevenW
User ID: 8952923 Apr 1st 6:47 PM
Hi Manofsteel - I think you have the wrong Steve - I do have a bunch of silverplated horns, but no Selmers:

Sops:

Silver Plate Rudy Wiedeoft
Silver Plate SML (King Marigaux)

Altos:

Silver Plate SML Rev. D

Tenors:

All in Lacquer, I no longer have the Silver Plated ones.

Bari:

Just the Silverplated SML

Bass:

Silver Plated 1919 Conn Bb Bass

oh - and a couple Silverplated C-Melody and Carinets.

The Bari isn't the big dog here due to "Kong" the Bass Sax lurking about!

Someday I'll get them together and shoot some pictures!

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 Apr 1st 6:53 PM
Ah, thought you were SteveW...didn't see the 'n'.

But damn you as well! That's an impressive listing too.

How about the questions concerning the silver plated bari? I'm curious how much a new silver plate job affects a bari.

StevenW
User ID: 8952923 Apr 1st 7:09 PM

The plating effect is hard to separate from dent removal, the effects of overhauling, the new pads, being properly regulated and so on....

The end result is something I experienced back in 1972 when I was able to buy a new Mk VI Tenor after playing the school's beatup Conn for a year...... (that Conn was a disaster and not representative).

Simply jaw-dropping!

StevenW
User ID: 8952923 Apr 7th 5:32 PM
SML Bari's - a casual opinion - post rebuild and playing-in follow up:

Just a follow up after putting about 10 hours playing on the horn:

1). Sarge at World Wide Sax is a master - simple as that. If he doubled his fees (as most master craftsmen who work at high levels like this) it would be a bargain.

2). The special order Prestini Pads are wonderful - they absolutely pop like bongos!

3). SML bari's deserve the adjustable thumbhook I specified. Being a somewhat heavy bari my right thumb was taking a pounding as the stock hook was too small and the wrong angle. About an hour and I was feeling it. The revised unit takes care of the angle issue and I'm having a fitted hook made for it, but even so 2-1/2 hours sessions were not an issue.

4). Bright silver plated bari's with deep gold bell wash and black pads are like bringing a stripper to a gig. No one wants to admit they are gawking, but they just can't help it.

5). The sound is amazing - from whisper whisper to thundering. Trumpet section players with thumbs up! Sarge suggested I have some cards printed:

"Excuse me if I upset the balance of the room for a while"
Steve W
Thunder Bari.

6). I'm trying to justify having a matching tenor done (I have a Rev-D Alto Sarge did to the same specifications).

I've heard people suggest that SML Bari's are best given a pass - maybe this is just a 'good un', but I'd certainly not let this one go willingly and would love to find a Low-A version to have done to the same specification!

regards,

StevenW

StevenW User ID: 0833354	Oct 4th 3:27 AM In response to a question in the BASS Sax thread in the Baritone Section: "Dr. Inconspicuous User ID: 0610144 Oct 3rd 6:41 PM asked: So what's your opinion of the SML bari? I've never been able to get a real review. " I've ended up with Morgan's old SML Bari - hooked up an Otto Link Super Tone Master and found it to be a real bell ringer! I'm coming back to playing regularly after a long hiatus and am approaching perhaps the %40 point in getting things back together, so temper my opinions accordingly! This ex-Morgan SML Bari is a Bb horn, and plays very well indeed. Very free playing, expressive, rich toned, consistant... The action is fast with the only complaints being the exposed rod-work down the left-side of the horn can bind up if pulled against you. Classical work is easy, do miss low-A and high F# keywork for jazz charts. Intonation throughout seems outstanding. Dynamic range excellent, from wispery fluffs (the "red velvet" sound) to thunder-horn it can do it! Magical the wonderful full vibrato you can irk out of it! Still working on Altissimo that I can manage consistantly though - but its me, not the horn. The across the break C-C#-D-Eb tonal consistantcy is a suprise, as most baritones seem to exhibit more tonal variation across the C#-D break. Haven't played anything I'd rather have (yet?) - sold my old French Noblet Bari once I played this SML, and have compared this SML to a new Yamaha, a Mk VI and a couple other vintage horns - I'm darn pleased with this SML Bari and would rave that if the example I obtained from Morgan is representative that an SML Bari is a real unsung hero of a Baritone Sax! Morgan has some mp3's of him playing it, if you ask him! regards, StevenW
StevenW User ID: 0833354	Nov 6th 10:14 PM Heh am I the only one playing one of these or can anyone else let us know how they are doing & feel about theirs?
J. Calhoun User ID: 0673084	Nov 7th 12:01 PM Sounds like you have a great find. There just can't be many of these, which is why no one is responding.
Rob V User ID: 1815634	Nov 7th 2:47 PM StevenW your not the only SML bai player out there. I play a nikkel plate SML bari and it sounds great it can whisper and it can roar and has great intonation and a huge projection. Regards, Rob
saxpics User ID: 0541004	Nov 7th 8:41 PM Rob, if you or any of your other SML bari playing bretheren happen to have some pics of your horns, send me some: I'll post them for all to enjoy when my 'site is up and running again. Nickle SML's, let alone baris, are rare to the point of almost non-existant. Thanks! Pete saxpics@hotmail.com
Rob V User ID: 1815634	Nov 8th 4:27 PM Pete, I,ll have to borrow a digital camera from a friend of mine and then i'll take some pics of this existing "non-existant" bari, i'ts near mint and the thing i like most about it, (except for the sound),is the fact that i don't have to polish it to keep it bright and shiny. greetz, Rob
Rob V User ID: 1815634	Nov 15th 5:50 PM Pete, i will send you the pic's tomorrow. Rob
StevenW User ID: 0833354	Nov 29th 11:45 PM Were many SML Bari's Silver Plate? Did those have Gold Wash in the Bell like avinatge horn? regards, StevenW
StevenW User ID: 8722703	Jan 16th 8:42 PM Also if anyone knows of another SML Bari (prefer needing repad and/or some work) I'd like to find a backup Bari. regards, Steve
saxhorn4 User ID: 9921013	Mar 28th 7:46 PM I had a low a SML bari in my shop last year. Wow did that thing bark...had to pull out my mark 6 to compare . Two things made me decide to keep my mark 6. First this SMl was one heavy horn, i could'nt imagine it around my neck at a 4 hour bar gig. Second was the key placement,my 6 felt alot more comfortable. But the sound still rings in my ears...it was close. I've heard the bodies at one time were made by Buffet..this one was. Sorry, one other point the model i played was a SML King Marigoux? spell? LowA
JP User ID: 9990163	Mar 28th 10:56 PM Two SML baris, StevenW? It's not nice to bogart the horns :)
mark m. User ID: 8973393	Mar 29th 10:28 AM yes, don't bogart that bari, my friend - pass it over to me! geez this must be a pretty old group - old as me anyway! nice to recall that little melody:)
StevenW User ID: 8952923	Mar 29th 12:51 PM I'm not all that keen on Low-A horns and my usual SML bari (due back today from being overhauled BTW) is a Low-Bb horn. Yet I really should have my own Low-A horn available. Not really a 'bogart'... but sure would have been nice to have had a second SML Bari while mine was away. Hand-fit, particularly in Bari & Bass Saxes seems to be highly personal thing. I've found the SML fits my grip well, and has such a wonderful full presence to garnish complaints about "that lead bari player" from entire brass sections. So far I've not played a Mk VI that projects like this SML, but I don't think I've played more than 10 or 12 Mk VI Bari's over the years. I've never noticed the weight, and usually play the sax forward like a tenor - but then anything seems light after a stint with the big Bass Sax. regards, StevenW
StevenW User ID: 8952923	Mar 31st 7:02 PM An Update. The SML Bari is back from overhaul - 30+ years of use rolled back to a popping mean machine by Sarge at World Wide Sax. The Prestini pads are crackerjack with the whole sax playing like a big alto - fast keywork is an understatement! The URLS: http://www.worldwidesax.com on the left side and http://www.worldwidesax.com/images/SMLBARI1.JPG currently have a couple photos of the replated, overhauled SML. Everything I wrote six months ago is still true plus the horn simple is playing better than I could have ever expected.
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	Apr 1st 2:19 PM Damn SteveW!!! You sure have a nice bevy of saxes...silver anniversary S-1 Alto, SDA tenor, SA II Sop, and the bid dawg...all silver now too? Tell me about the silver plating...specifically how does the engraving look? It looks good from the pictures but how is the detail? Did Sarge put a clear lacquer on top of it too? Lastly, did you notice any difference in tone? I'm still bemoaning the fact that a guy from NY didn't want to sell me his SML/Marigaux bari because he didn't want to deal with shipping it...AAAAAHHH!!!
StevenW User ID: 8952923	Apr 1st 6:47 PM Hi Manofsteel - I think you have the wrong Steve - I do have a bunch of silverplated horns, but no Selmers: Sops: Silver Plate Rudy Wiedeoft Silver Plate SML (King Marigaux) Altos: Silver Plate SML Rev. D Tenors: All in Lacquer, I no longer have the Silver Plated ones. Bari: Just the Silverplated SML Bass: Silver Plated 1919 Conn Bb Bass oh - and a couple Silverplated C-Melody and Carinets. The Bari isn't the big dog here due to "Kong" the Bass Sax lurking about! Someday I'll get them together and shoot some pictures!
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	Apr 1st 6:53 PM Ah, thought you were SteveW...didn't see the 'n'. But damn you as well! That's an impressive listing too. How about the questions concerning the silver plated bari? I'm curious how much a new silver plate job affects a bari.
StevenW User ID: 8952923	Apr 1st 7:09 PM The plating effect is hard to separate from dent removal, the effects of overhauling, the new pads, being properly regulated and so on.... The end result is something I experienced back in 1972 when I was able to buy a new Mk VI Tenor after playing the school's beatup Conn for a year...... (that Conn was a disaster and not representative). Simply jaw-dropping!
StevenW User ID: 8952923	Apr 7th 5:32 PM SML Bari's - a casual opinion - post rebuild and playing-in follow up: Just a follow up after putting about 10 hours playing on the horn: 1). Sarge at World Wide Sax is a master - simple as that. If he doubled his fees (as most master craftsmen who work at high levels like this) it would be a bargain. 2). The special order Prestini Pads are wonderful - they absolutely pop like bongos! 3). SML bari's deserve the adjustable thumbhook I specified. Being a somewhat heavy bari my right thumb was taking a pounding as the stock hook was too small and the wrong angle. About an hour and I was feeling it. The revised unit takes care of the angle issue and I'm having a fitted hook made for it, but even so 2-1/2 hours sessions were not an issue. 4). Bright silver plated bari's with deep gold bell wash and black pads are like bringing a stripper to a gig. No one wants to admit they are gawking, but they just can't help it. 5). The sound is amazing - from whisper whisper to thundering. Trumpet section players with thumbs up! Sarge suggested I have some cards printed: "Excuse me if I upset the balance of the room for a while" Steve W Thunder Bari. 6). I'm trying to justify having a matching tenor done (I have a Rev-D Alto Sarge did to the same specifications). I've heard people suggest that SML Bari's are best given a pass - maybe this is just a 'good un', but I'd certainly not let this one go willingly and would love to find a Low-A version to have done to the same specification! regards, StevenW