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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / Lower stack ergonomics?

MPL
User ID: 0387824 May 25th 12:45 AM
Of the vintage baritones (Conn, Martin, older Selmer, Buescher, King), which models have the best ergonomics in the lower stack?

I've been playing a 12M for three months now, and I love the sound - but playing this horn seems to be causing some tendonitis in my right arm! I feel like I have to "wrap" my fingers around the horn to reach those lower stack keys. I even took the horn with me when I had my doctor check out my arm; he said he couldn't tell for sure, but that the angle of my wrist and arm when playing the horn would probably lead to more "tennis elbow." That's embarrassing!

I really like this horn, but I also like being able to use my right arm without pain once in awhile! If not this 270XXX 12M, which vintage horn?

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 May 29th 8:28 AM
I have short fingers and find the vintage baris to be an uncomfortable stretch. I think the Selmer Mark VI was the first to make the bari feel like a tenor. The tone holes are rotated so you do not need to stretch so far. Most all of the new saxes have copied this concept.

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 May 30th 1:38 PM
MPL - I hear your pain! I just tried out a Chu yesterday briefly but didn't notice the problem you describe. Interestingly, I have the same problem with the upper stack of my Martin. I feel that I have to wrap my left hand around the body to properly grip the horn.

What I found helpful was to rotate the horn counterclockwise to help reduce the akwardness of the left hand (but at the same time of course, causing the same problem for the right hand. But for whatever reason, it doesn't bother me as much)

For you, you'd need to physically rotate the horn clockwise to help out the right hand position.

MPL
User ID: 0471064 May 31st 12:30 AM
Yeah, I was afraid that the Mark VI would be the answer...that's another $1000+ that I don't have.

No probs with my LH, manofsteel - I figured out that by holding the horn at a much more acute angle, with the bow next to or beyond my right hip, that my RH felt MUCH better. But then my embouchure feels out of whack with that odd angle.

The Yamaha/Yanagisawa/Keilwerth horns have much better ergonomics, but also have that $3500+ price tag, and I'm not really thinking about the next lower level: Cannonball, Saxophone.com, etc., at least not yet.

super20dan
User ID: 0255034 May 31st 7:59 PM
as a long time bari player i have to second the mk6 for most comfy rt hand but they weigh more and it might hurt your back. my low a is very heavy and i used to have to play it standing up in a horn sec. another reason why i favor my super 20 is lighter wght. the chu seems to be the lightest bari but those keys! ouch

Curt
User ID: 1529574 May 31st 8:20 PM
I play a 12M and also did not like the "reach" in the right hand. Here is my (sucessful) solution:

(BTW, it hurts me to change a horn like this....But it hurt more not to :)

The F key (pearl) is lowered (toward the bow) a bit simply be bending the pad cup (I know the pad is not centered now).

The F# key (Pearl) is bent up slightly making it closer to the F key.

The low D key (pearl) was extended (metal added) and brought closer to the F and F# (which are now higher)

SO all the pearls are real close.

Then, I extended the Eb and low C keys by adding a piece of brass. This brings them closer to the three pearls. All Very close now.

The fork F# is also extended bringing it closed to the D key pearl.

The whole lower stack is close and fast and I have no real pain....

Except in my thumb.
I have considered taking the thumb rest off entirely. I saw Mulligan's horn (the gold Conn) at the library of congress and noticed the thumb rest was gone.

Anyone ever play without a thumbrest?

MPL User ID: 0387824	May 25th 12:45 AM Of the vintage baritones (Conn, Martin, older Selmer, Buescher, King), which models have the best ergonomics in the lower stack? I've been playing a 12M for three months now, and I love the sound - but playing this horn seems to be causing some tendonitis in my right arm! I feel like I have to "wrap" my fingers around the horn to reach those lower stack keys. I even took the horn with me when I had my doctor check out my arm; he said he couldn't tell for sure, but that the angle of my wrist and arm when playing the horn would probably lead to more "tennis elbow." That's embarrassing! I really like this horn, but I also like being able to use my right arm without pain once in awhile! If not this 270XXX 12M, which vintage horn?
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	May 29th 8:28 AM I have short fingers and find the vintage baris to be an uncomfortable stretch. I think the Selmer Mark VI was the first to make the bari feel like a tenor. The tone holes are rotated so you do not need to stretch so far. Most all of the new saxes have copied this concept.
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	May 30th 1:38 PM MPL - I hear your pain! I just tried out a Chu yesterday briefly but didn't notice the problem you describe. Interestingly, I have the same problem with the upper stack of my Martin. I feel that I have to wrap my left hand around the body to properly grip the horn. What I found helpful was to rotate the horn counterclockwise to help reduce the akwardness of the left hand (but at the same time of course, causing the same problem for the right hand. But for whatever reason, it doesn't bother me as much) For you, you'd need to physically rotate the horn clockwise to help out the right hand position.
MPL User ID: 0471064	May 31st 12:30 AM Yeah, I was afraid that the Mark VI would be the answer...that's another $1000+ that I don't have. No probs with my LH, manofsteel - I figured out that by holding the horn at a much more acute angle, with the bow next to or beyond my right hip, that my RH felt MUCH better. But then my embouchure feels out of whack with that odd angle. The Yamaha/Yanagisawa/Keilwerth horns have much better ergonomics, but also have that $3500+ price tag, and I'm not really thinking about the next lower level: Cannonball, Saxophone.com, etc., at least not yet.
super20dan User ID: 0255034	May 31st 7:59 PM as a long time bari player i have to second the mk6 for most comfy rt hand but they weigh more and it might hurt your back. my low a is very heavy and i used to have to play it standing up in a horn sec. another reason why i favor my super 20 is lighter wght. the chu seems to be the lightest bari but those keys! ouch
Curt User ID: 1529574	May 31st 8:20 PM I play a 12M and also did not like the "reach" in the right hand. Here is my (sucessful) solution: (BTW, it hurts me to change a horn like this....But it hurt more not to :) The F key (pearl) is lowered (toward the bow) a bit simply be bending the pad cup (I know the pad is not centered now). The F# key (Pearl) is bent up slightly making it closer to the F key. The low D key (pearl) was extended (metal added) and brought closer to the F and F# (which are now higher) SO all the pearls are real close. Then, I extended the Eb and low C keys by adding a piece of brass. This brings them closer to the three pearls. All Very close now. The fork F# is also extended bringing it closed to the D key pearl. The whole lower stack is close and fast and I have no real pain.... Except in my thumb. I have considered taking the thumb rest off entirely. I saw Mulligan's horn (the gold Conn) at the library of congress and noticed the thumb rest was gone. Anyone ever play without a thumbrest?