Sax on the Web

Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / Do I NEED a Lo A.....!?

Next 20 Messages

Cashsax
User ID: 9014973 May 4th 7:21 PM
AAAAAHHHHHH.....The question of the ages..? Several Broken windows and numerous arrests, have proved to me once and for all the POWER (and necessity) of the infamous Low A, the crowd went absolutely freakin' BERSERK..I had to RUN for my life....! (it was THAT good last nite..)

Screech
User ID: 1390494 May 5th 6:04 AM
Wow Cash. What happened?

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 May 6th 10:22 AM
I had a big band solo last night, in D maj with a cadenza on the end. I landed on a low A and milked it for all it was worth with some slow vibrato. The arts center just resonated! Then C, C#, D (held) and band came in for the final flurry. I was a popular guy too!

jmarshall83
User ID: 2762454 May 6th 2:28 PM
Congrats on your low A stardom but i am of the other school.
YOU DON'T NEED A LOW A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Nick Brignola didn't use one for thelatter part of his carrer
Pepper adams didn't use one
harry carney didn't use one
joe temperly doesn't use one
Gary smulyan doesn't use one
hammiet bluiett doesn't use one
john surman doesn't use one
Ronnie Cuber does
I don't use one
You can ask ronnie. Low A is just not needed.
Low Bb horns just speak better.

mark m
User ID: 1278884 May 6th 3:23 PM
Sounds like it payed of for Cash last night though - I'll bet that one experience was worth the price of admission to the low A club...

Bootman
User ID: 1676554 May 6th 5:12 PM
A low Bb would been twice as loud although a semitone higher.

You also forgot Mulligan.

Riff
User ID: 8332933 May 6th 5:28 PM
Lets keep in mind that we're all sax fanatics here. No self respecting fanatic owns only one sax. The answer to Cashsax's question is obvious:

"YOU NEED BOTH!"

OnyxSax
User ID: 9683713 May 6th 9:11 PM
To me, Bb horns are a physically lot easier to handle. Low A horns feel heavy and awkward. The Bb seems to project better, although I am spoiled because my Bb horn is a Conn Chu. However, I will be utilizing a Low A horn while my Conn is getting restored.

DD
User ID: 1982994 May 6th 9:28 PM
Both it is! My tech looked at me kind of funny when I told him "no rush" on the 12m repair - I had a Yam 61 as a "spare". His response was a quizzical "Nobody owns 2 baris." Of course not... they own ME.

Cashsax
User ID: 9014973 May 7th 4:01 AM
The answer: do need it ?? NO..do I WANT it YESSSS..! It IS a helluva note,..punches and fills the bottom like no other..BUT...My Third Bari will be a Bb fer sure.

StevenW
User ID: 8952923 May 7th 4:27 AM
You can never have too many Bari's!

Bootman
User ID: 1676554 May 7th 7:53 AM
Riff,
Both it is. Bugger that means I have to go out a find another low A. Can I blame you when my wife finds out?

I've got it, a striaght Low A Bari, hinged in the moddle for transportaion reasons.

K-TS
User ID: 0339064 May 7th 8:00 AM
They're already sold!
Here in Germany for quite a long time! Not called Straight Baritone, but AlpineHorn! ;-)

JimH
User ID: 9238183 May 7th 8:20 AM
Another vote for owning both(If you can afford it)
I use my new Keilwerth low a for playing in a big band. I like the sound and the modern key work. I use my Mark VI low Bb for jam sessions and general small ensemble work. Most folks think that i am nuts for owning 2 baris ! My retort is that i dont own either a tenor or a soprano.

Dave Spiegelthal
User ID: 1781064 May 7th 8:45 AM
Low-A baris are useful for big band work where many of the newer charts use that note extensively, and for rock/Top-40/R&B work where it's a very useful note for those low 'honking' parts in the two or three keys guitarists love to play in. For solo and combo work, a low-Bb horn is probably preferable.
An analogous situation is in the bass clarinet world, where many players ask if it's necessary to have the extended range to low-C (the 'normal' bass clarinet only goes down to low written Eb). I've been playing semi-professional bass clarinet for about 25 years and have never owned a low-C bass clarinet. There have been a few instances in orchestral music (and in modern concert band literature) where the lower notes are written for, but I've been able to manage pretty well without them. Really, only full-time professional bass clarinetists and those who play a lot of modern repertoire need the extended range bass clarinet. I suspect the situation with bari saxes is similar.

MusicMan
User ID: 0464054 May 7th 9:04 AM
A large number of our big band charts call for low A these days. The foot/knee bell trick just wou't work for some passages.

Right now, I have both, but I'm feelin' a lot of financial pressure to get rid of my Big B.

Anyone want to contribute to a fund for "Keep the Vintage "B"east"?

mark m.
User ID: 1278884 May 7th 11:55 AM
Dave - I really love the timbre of bass clarinet. I'm curious if you've ever explored trying to approach that tonal quality with a bari, and how one might approach that, if at all...?

Bones
User ID: 1307164 May 7th 1:44 PM
Some years ago I showed up at a recording session and set-up two bari's. I wanted a different sound for one of the tunes. I got a lot of flak from the other musicians. My retort was that they've heard of recording basses, why not a recording bari.

Dave, I've always found all the extra hardware on the low C bass clarinets to be a terrible nuisance. Many more keys to go out of regulation, much bigger case to haul around, much more awkward to play. I definitely prefer the bass clarinet to Eb.

Dave Spiegelthal
User ID: 1781064 May 7th 3:22 PM
mark m,
I approach bass clarinet and bari sax very differently, because my bass clarinet playing is about 95% classical in nature (orchestras, concert bands/wind ensembles and the occasional show) while my bari playing is almost exclusively jazz/rock/R&B in nature (big bands, combos, wedding/Top-40 bands). I rarely cross over, but when I do, I generally change mouthpiece/reed setups, for starters (that is, 'classical' on either horn would use a closer mouthpiece with larger chamber and deeper baffle, and harder reeds) compared to the corresponding 'pop' setups (open tip, higher baffle, softer reeds). But the main thing is to hear the sound you want to achieve, then voice the instrument accordingly --- this part of the approach is independent of the equipment --- it's all in your head, in your oral cavity and embouchure, your breathing, your phrasing, etc. I can't really explain it well, I'm afraid --- I've never taught instruments and find it hard to define what I do in words.

Bones: I'm right with you. Many of my friends and colleagues who play low-C bass clarinets are constantly complaining about problems with them, things getting out of adjustment and so forth. I'm a part-time repair tech so I can fix these things myself, but still I prefer the simplicity of the low-Eb bass clarinets compared to the low-C instruments.

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 May 7th 3:27 PM
I play several low A's every time I perform on bari. Most of them are written in the charts. A few during solos. The same usage can not be said of low B flutes and low C bass clarinets.

Next 20 Messages

Cashsax User ID: 9014973	May 4th 7:21 PM AAAAAHHHHHH.....The question of the ages..? Several Broken windows and numerous arrests, have proved to me once and for all the POWER (and necessity) of the infamous Low A, the crowd went absolutely freakin' BERSERK..I had to RUN for my life....! (it was THAT good last nite..)
Screech User ID: 1390494	May 5th 6:04 AM Wow Cash. What happened?
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	May 6th 10:22 AM I had a big band solo last night, in D maj with a cadenza on the end. I landed on a low A and milked it for all it was worth with some slow vibrato. The arts center just resonated! Then C, C#, D (held) and band came in for the final flurry. I was a popular guy too!
jmarshall83 User ID: 2762454	May 6th 2:28 PM Congrats on your low A stardom but i am of the other school. YOU DON'T NEED A LOW A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Nick Brignola didn't use one for thelatter part of his carrer Pepper adams didn't use one harry carney didn't use one joe temperly doesn't use one Gary smulyan doesn't use one hammiet bluiett doesn't use one john surman doesn't use one Ronnie Cuber does I don't use one You can ask ronnie. Low A is just not needed. Low Bb horns just speak better.
mark m User ID: 1278884	May 6th 3:23 PM Sounds like it payed of for Cash last night though - I'll bet that one experience was worth the price of admission to the low A club...
Bootman User ID: 1676554	May 6th 5:12 PM A low Bb would been twice as loud although a semitone higher. You also forgot Mulligan.
Riff User ID: 8332933	May 6th 5:28 PM Lets keep in mind that we're all sax fanatics here. No self respecting fanatic owns only one sax. The answer to Cashsax's question is obvious: "YOU NEED BOTH!"
OnyxSax User ID: 9683713	May 6th 9:11 PM To me, Bb horns are a physically lot easier to handle. Low A horns feel heavy and awkward. The Bb seems to project better, although I am spoiled because my Bb horn is a Conn Chu. However, I will be utilizing a Low A horn while my Conn is getting restored.
DD User ID: 1982994	May 6th 9:28 PM Both it is! My tech looked at me kind of funny when I told him "no rush" on the 12m repair - I had a Yam 61 as a "spare". His response was a quizzical "Nobody owns 2 baris." Of course not... they own ME.
Cashsax User ID: 9014973	May 7th 4:01 AM The answer: do need it ?? NO..do I WANT it YESSSS..! It IS a helluva note,..punches and fills the bottom like no other..BUT...My Third Bari will be a Bb fer sure.
StevenW User ID: 8952923	May 7th 4:27 AM You can never have too many Bari's!
Bootman User ID: 1676554	May 7th 7:53 AM Riff, Both it is. Bugger that means I have to go out a find another low A. Can I blame you when my wife finds out? I've got it, a striaght Low A Bari, hinged in the moddle for transportaion reasons.
K-TS User ID: 0339064	May 7th 8:00 AM They're already sold! Here in Germany for quite a long time! Not called Straight Baritone, but AlpineHorn! ;-)
JimH User ID: 9238183	May 7th 8:20 AM Another vote for owning both(If you can afford it) I use my new Keilwerth low a for playing in a big band. I like the sound and the modern key work. I use my Mark VI low Bb for jam sessions and general small ensemble work. Most folks think that i am nuts for owning 2 baris ! My retort is that i dont own either a tenor or a soprano.
Dave Spiegelthal User ID: 1781064	May 7th 8:45 AM Low-A baris are useful for big band work where many of the newer charts use that note extensively, and for rock/Top-40/R&B work where it's a very useful note for those low 'honking' parts in the two or three keys guitarists love to play in. For solo and combo work, a low-Bb horn is probably preferable. An analogous situation is in the bass clarinet world, where many players ask if it's necessary to have the extended range to low-C (the 'normal' bass clarinet only goes down to low written Eb). I've been playing semi-professional bass clarinet for about 25 years and have never owned a low-C bass clarinet. There have been a few instances in orchestral music (and in modern concert band literature) where the lower notes are written for, but I've been able to manage pretty well without them. Really, only full-time professional bass clarinetists and those who play a lot of modern repertoire need the extended range bass clarinet. I suspect the situation with bari saxes is similar.
MusicMan User ID: 0464054	May 7th 9:04 AM A large number of our big band charts call for low A these days. The foot/knee bell trick just wou't work for some passages. Right now, I have both, but I'm feelin' a lot of financial pressure to get rid of my Big B. Anyone want to contribute to a fund for "Keep the Vintage "B"east"?
mark m. User ID: 1278884	May 7th 11:55 AM Dave - I really love the timbre of bass clarinet. I'm curious if you've ever explored trying to approach that tonal quality with a bari, and how one might approach that, if at all...?
Bones User ID: 1307164	May 7th 1:44 PM Some years ago I showed up at a recording session and set-up two bari's. I wanted a different sound for one of the tunes. I got a lot of flak from the other musicians. My retort was that they've heard of recording basses, why not a recording bari. Dave, I've always found all the extra hardware on the low C bass clarinets to be a terrible nuisance. Many more keys to go out of regulation, much bigger case to haul around, much more awkward to play. I definitely prefer the bass clarinet to Eb.
Dave Spiegelthal User ID: 1781064	May 7th 3:22 PM mark m, I approach bass clarinet and bari sax very differently, because my bass clarinet playing is about 95% classical in nature (orchestras, concert bands/wind ensembles and the occasional show) while my bari playing is almost exclusively jazz/rock/R&B in nature (big bands, combos, wedding/Top-40 bands). I rarely cross over, but when I do, I generally change mouthpiece/reed setups, for starters (that is, 'classical' on either horn would use a closer mouthpiece with larger chamber and deeper baffle, and harder reeds) compared to the corresponding 'pop' setups (open tip, higher baffle, softer reeds). But the main thing is to hear the sound you want to achieve, then voice the instrument accordingly --- this part of the approach is independent of the equipment --- it's all in your head, in your oral cavity and embouchure, your breathing, your phrasing, etc. I can't really explain it well, I'm afraid --- I've never taught instruments and find it hard to define what I do in words. Bones: I'm right with you. Many of my friends and colleagues who play low-C bass clarinets are constantly complaining about problems with them, things getting out of adjustment and so forth. I'm a part-time repair tech so I can fix these things myself, but still I prefer the simplicity of the low-Eb bass clarinets compared to the low-C instruments.
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	May 7th 3:27 PM I play several low A's every time I perform on bari. Most of them are written in the charts. A few during solos. The same usage can not be said of low B flutes and low C bass clarinets.