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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / HELP PLEASE!! Which Low-A bari to buy???

Back 20 Messages

Anne
User ID: 9976863 Feb 6th 4:39 PM
My situation ... I am a bari player in a community band and in a fairly recently formed saxtet, and am wanting to buy a new low-A bari. My current bari is a 70s Armstrong (made by Keilwerth however!) ... not a bad horn actually. But, I really feel I'm ready to "step up." (I've had it about 20 years, but have only been more serious about my music recently.)

I was really leaning towards the Yani 901, and then finally decided that I'd spring for the 991 because I hope to have this bari for the LONG haul. However, since making that decision, I made the mistake of continuing to ask for advice from others ... including my repair tech, who I really respect (and who really likes Yamahas and dislikes Yanis).

Oh, by the way, the Yamaha 52 is really cheap right now, because of a special promotion (around $2800), and the Yani is around $3200, if purchased from overseas. The 991 is less than $1K over the 901, and the Yamaha 62 is out of my range (as are Selmers, etc., if any of you want to suggest them).

ANYWAY ... everyone around here seems to REALLY dislike Yanis ... citing their early history, etc. In fact, one music store stated that he'd place Yani at the bottom of the Big Four, and that the Yamaha would "have better intonation, faster response, feel better, and hold adjustment better."

However, I have also read some really negative things on the Yamaha horns on the web ... so I don't know what to do now!

Also ... I should mention that I live in a fairly rural county of Calif., and I don't know how far I would have to go to try these horns out side by side ... at least four hours away, if not further. My repair tech feels that no one will have the Yani in stock anyway ... but I do know that I could try out the Yamaha locally.

Any advice would be MUCH appreciated!

MusicMan
User ID: 0464054 Feb 7th 4:08 PM
Bootman, I agree...the sound from my Buescher bari is more mellow than my new SA80 II, but because our band is playing more newer literature, I needed the low A...I'm still gonna have the "Big B"east on the stand for numbers that need it's vintage voice.

super20dan
User ID: 7705853 Feb 7th 5:07 PM
i have played a lot of bari saxes .i think you should get the yamaha 52 .at that price it a great deal and a very good horn . its nice to have the low a when needed but the Bb horns speak with more authority. (lighter too) but modern music seems to have the low a written in more often than not

Sherry
User ID: 1759784 Feb 7th 7:02 PM
When I tried to find horns to play before I bought, they had a new Buescher at the local Sam Ash. Other than that I tried calling a few other stores in the Valley and no one had anything.

I won't go into Oleg's shop for a $1 million.

I don't like going to Manny's (Horn Connection). Usually he only has Mark VIs and a few other horns.

That's why I ended up buying soley based on research. I got the Yani 901 but subsequently felt the 991 would be worth the extra for the stronger arms. Later, after I bought my horn I took my bari mouthpiece to NAMM and got to try everything, and all within the same hour. Interestingly, I agree 100% with MusicMan's experience. When I did get to try them, the Selmer came out tops for sound. The Yani 992 (I think it was a 992 I tried) came out second for sound and tops for action and construction.

I think the 901 turned out to be good for me because I don't play Bari primarily and in those situations where I might, I don't need the volume. The Selmer had amazing power. If I were every playing Bari in a situation where I needed to cut through I'd be tempted to get one.

Sherry
User ID: 1759784 Feb 7th 7:06 PM
manofsteel, Yes, I'm the one who took lessons from Ira. I moved from the West Side to the Valley three years ago so getting to Ira was too hard. I'm taking lessons from Steve Carr who knows Ira quite well and who used to play in Ira's fourwinds quartet. Steve has seen Ira within the last couple of weeks. He says Ira is not looking particularly well and seems to be more and more frail.

Ira is one of the nicest people I've ever met in my life. I miss him, but I've been lucky because Steve is a great teacher.

JoeP
User ID: 0833354 Feb 7th 7:13 PM
Hi Sherry! You referred me to Ira. I've been studying with him for one year now. He is the greatest! Actually, I had a lesson with him on Monday night (2/4). I'm sure you'll be relieved to know that he looked better than I'd seen in months, IMHO. He is a treasure. Shall I tell him "Hello" from you next lesson? Once again, thanks for the referral, studying with him has enhanced my life immeasurably!

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 Feb 7th 7:28 PM
Hey JoeP!

I'm so glad to hear Ira is still kicking! (Esp since I paid him for 4 lessons and only took 2 -just kidding of course)

I'll be giving him a call.

Ben, while I agree with the sentiment that 'it's the indian, not the arrow', I also believe if I pick up horn A and it sounds bland, then I pick up horn B, and it sounds great (i.e. has character) then I'm going to buy horn B, you dig?

Sherry, I too tried a bunch of horns at NAMM a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, the Keilworth bari was in it's case and I didn't want to bother taking it out. Bad move. Add me to the list of folks that think the Selmer II sound was the best. But not much better than the Yani 992.

And what's wrong with Oleg's? I mean aside from him telling you your horn is for s#$t and that all you need is his neck for $800, the guy is okay :^) I've caught him on good days and bad days. Last time, a good day, he gave my boy a free plastic recorder when he started getting a bit bored.

I haven't been to Manny's in years and I never took notice of bari's when I was there.

Annie, I too would say that the Yamaha 52 sounds right up your alley. It is DEAD ON intonation wise and blends quite nicely in a sax section.

Sherry
User ID: 1759784 Feb 7th 7:43 PM
JoeP - Please do say Hi to Ira for me and tell him I'm studying with Steve Carr because I moved to the Valley.

manofsteel - I didn't try the Keilwerth bari either at NAMM. Oleg tells me my horn is *&%t, that my playing is *&%t, and that he's god. It's boring and tiring.

Tom ed
User ID: 2484284 Feb 7th 8:16 PM
I'm bari shopping as well. A local music store has Yamaha 52s for $2600.00 until march 31. Try Gadsden Music Company, Inc. Gadsden Ala. 256 546-9381. Also wwbw price on ser80 ii as of today 4899.

Adam
User ID: 9572103 Feb 7th 10:03 PM
Hmm. I've seen several people mention how good the Selmer series II bari is based on the horn at the NAMM show. As far as Selmers go, that one was not too special (and needed some work too). I haven't played many newer Selmer baris (and was anxious to try the one at the show), but I hope most of them play better than that one did. My backup bari is a Keilwerth (now 12 years old, but I got it new), and I would definitely say that these are among the best sounding new baris available. I would say they sound way better than the series II based on the horn at the show... I think they are a hair cheaper than the Selmer too.

Bootman
User ID: 2964484 Feb 7th 11:34 PM
Just play the horn before you commit if possible, if not then get it through a reputable trader. If I was buying a new Bari, I would be chosing the Keilwerth based on specs. I was seriously tempted by a Temby Bari the other day because of the price more than anything else.

Dr. Ben
User ID: 0658904 Feb 8th 12:18 AM
Any saxophone model that has a positive reputation and is widely used is what I would refer to as a 'good' horn. Usually these horns (we're talking modern horns here) are from the "Big 4", i.e. Selmer, Yamaha, Keilwerth, and Yanagisawa. Of course, there are the Guardala and B&S horns (same German maker) that aren't as popular but are certainly competitive.

These companies have been making saxophones for decades. The longevity of a company is usually based on the quality of their products, so the products of these particular horn manufacturers are bound to be good if not great. Any professional model saxophone from Selmer, Yamaha, Keilwerth, and Yanagisawa will have excellent intonation, sound, and build quality. No one can argue that. Since they're all good, it's then a matter of taste. You the player must decide what to pick upon trying all the horns. No one can decide for you.

If there is any piece of equipment that would directly affect the "character of sound" it will be the mouthpiece and reed. But really, when it all comes down, the player is what you hear, NOT the saxophone. We don't say, "Oh Eric Alexander's
saxophone sounds great." We say, "Oh that Eric Alexander sounds great."

I myself prefer the Yamaha 62 bari only because I'm so used to the Yamaha feel with my Custom altos and tenor. But really, I would be happy with any pro bari from the other three of the Big 4. I'll sound like 'me' no matter which horn I play. And likewise, you'll sound like you no matter which brand you play.

So have fun shopping for a new horn. After you pick one and buy it, be ready to impose your own character upon your new saxophone.

Anne
User ID: 9976863 Feb 8th 8:07 AM
Dr. Ben ... So can I assume that the negative opinions I've heard about the Yamahas and Yanis (in regards to construction quality) are based more on personal biases rather than fact? Or, does buying a "pro" horn from those makers eliminate some of those concerns? Still hoping to hear from some repairs techs or have some more people address quality of construction/longevity in addition to opinions of sound. Thanks all!

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 Feb 8th 8:46 AM
manofsteel: On my 52 I've been using Runyon Quantums and also RIAs, all with Fibracell reeds. They have also all been hand faced, but were pretty good before.

Anne: Construction comments are rarely based on good facts. Some are based on one bad experiance years ago that as either a fluke or has been fixed on the newer models. Other comments are "bad mouth" marketing. They dont carry that horn, so it must be bad.

I could tell you the problems I've had with my 1987 52, but I dont think they are any more/less than other horns. I get some dents removed every 3-4 years (hopefully less now that I have a better gig bag).

One thing I like about the Yamahas is the ability to regulate most of it with a screw driver. This feature is probably on other brands too by now.
On the web I read the most good comments about Yani construction. So maybe the Yani is a "10" on the tank scale and some other horn you like is a "9", big deal. $ and ergonomics may be more important to your decision.

62s look nice, but do not play any better for me than 52s. So I had no reason to put a 62 neck on a 52 for a test.

As for the low A, I play at least one every time I have the bari out. Today's music is full of them.

Fun Bun
User ID: 8416263 Feb 8th 4:36 PM
I played a Selmer Series II and a Yani. 992. For me, the Yani. won becasue I have a bad back and my right hand is has been injured in the past. The desiding factors were:

1. The sound of the horn was second is priority.
2. I needed a horn that was light in weight with great action and perfect hand
positioning.

The Yani. fit the bill. After the first day of rehearsal with that horn, the lead alto player said, "If you ever sell that horn, I'll buy it (the lead alto player in our band plays a Selmer Series 2 Bari)!!" So the sound of the horn was plenty able to cut through the the band! If has used it on blues gigs and it cut like crazy!!! Thus, the name King Kupka.

Dr. Ben
User ID: 0658904 Feb 8th 5:18 PM
Anne,

What kind of quality are you looking for in construction? Are you looking for a horn that had its ribs and posts placed perfectly so that the fulcrum or pivot points allow each and every key cup to be exactly parallel to their respective tone hole along with perfect key heights with no play in rods, etc, etc?

Or are you looking for a horn that can stand up to abuse with suitably alloyed brass and ribbed construction that would keep posts from getting displaced when hit and dings to a minimum?

Or both?

The pro baritone saxes from the major manufacturers are all well-made horns and thus eliminate most of the concerns with respect to quality of construction. That's why you pay the big bucks.

I don't know where people get the notion that Yamaha and Yanagisawa saxes aren't as well built. As well built as what, a Selmer? OK... I'd like to hear factually based arguments on that.

If you're worried about longevity and repair, that is up to how you handle it. If you take care of the horn it will outlive you. Guaranteed.

Hope this helps.

Back 20 Messages

Anne User ID: 9976863	Feb 6th 4:39 PM My situation ... I am a bari player in a community band and in a fairly recently formed saxtet, and am wanting to buy a new low-A bari. My current bari is a 70s Armstrong (made by Keilwerth however!) ... not a bad horn actually. But, I really feel I'm ready to "step up." (I've had it about 20 years, but have only been more serious about my music recently.) I was really leaning towards the Yani 901, and then finally decided that I'd spring for the 991 because I hope to have this bari for the LONG haul. However, since making that decision, I made the mistake of continuing to ask for advice from others ... including my repair tech, who I really respect (and who really likes Yamahas and dislikes Yanis). Oh, by the way, the Yamaha 52 is really cheap right now, because of a special promotion (around $2800), and the Yani is around $3200, if purchased from overseas. The 991 is less than $1K over the 901, and the Yamaha 62 is out of my range (as are Selmers, etc., if any of you want to suggest them). ANYWAY ... everyone around here seems to REALLY dislike Yanis ... citing their early history, etc. In fact, one music store stated that he'd place Yani at the bottom of the Big Four, and that the Yamaha would "have better intonation, faster response, feel better, and hold adjustment better." However, I have also read some really negative things on the Yamaha horns on the web ... so I don't know what to do now! Also ... I should mention that I live in a fairly rural county of Calif., and I don't know how far I would have to go to try these horns out side by side ... at least four hours away, if not further. My repair tech feels that no one will have the Yani in stock anyway ... but I do know that I could try out the Yamaha locally. Any advice would be MUCH appreciated!
MusicMan User ID: 0464054	Feb 7th 4:08 PM Bootman, I agree...the sound from my Buescher bari is more mellow than my new SA80 II, but because our band is playing more newer literature, I needed the low A...I'm still gonna have the "Big B"east on the stand for numbers that need it's vintage voice.
super20dan User ID: 7705853	Feb 7th 5:07 PM i have played a lot of bari saxes .i think you should get the yamaha 52 .at that price it a great deal and a very good horn . its nice to have the low a when needed but the Bb horns speak with more authority. (lighter too) but modern music seems to have the low a written in more often than not
Sherry User ID: 1759784	Feb 7th 7:02 PM When I tried to find horns to play before I bought, they had a new Buescher at the local Sam Ash. Other than that I tried calling a few other stores in the Valley and no one had anything. I won't go into Oleg's shop for a $1 million. I don't like going to Manny's (Horn Connection). Usually he only has Mark VIs and a few other horns. That's why I ended up buying soley based on research. I got the Yani 901 but subsequently felt the 991 would be worth the extra for the stronger arms. Later, after I bought my horn I took my bari mouthpiece to NAMM and got to try everything, and all within the same hour. Interestingly, I agree 100% with MusicMan's experience. When I did get to try them, the Selmer came out tops for sound. The Yani 992 (I think it was a 992 I tried) came out second for sound and tops for action and construction. I think the 901 turned out to be good for me because I don't play Bari primarily and in those situations where I might, I don't need the volume. The Selmer had amazing power. If I were every playing Bari in a situation where I needed to cut through I'd be tempted to get one.
Sherry User ID: 1759784	Feb 7th 7:06 PM manofsteel, Yes, I'm the one who took lessons from Ira. I moved from the West Side to the Valley three years ago so getting to Ira was too hard. I'm taking lessons from Steve Carr who knows Ira quite well and who used to play in Ira's fourwinds quartet. Steve has seen Ira within the last couple of weeks. He says Ira is not looking particularly well and seems to be more and more frail. Ira is one of the nicest people I've ever met in my life. I miss him, but I've been lucky because Steve is a great teacher.
JoeP User ID: 0833354	Feb 7th 7:13 PM Hi Sherry! You referred me to Ira. I've been studying with him for one year now. He is the greatest! Actually, I had a lesson with him on Monday night (2/4). I'm sure you'll be relieved to know that he looked better than I'd seen in months, IMHO. He is a treasure. Shall I tell him "Hello" from you next lesson? Once again, thanks for the referral, studying with him has enhanced my life immeasurably!
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	Feb 7th 7:28 PM Hey JoeP! I'm so glad to hear Ira is still kicking! (Esp since I paid him for 4 lessons and only took 2 -just kidding of course) I'll be giving him a call. Ben, while I agree with the sentiment that 'it's the indian, not the arrow', I also believe if I pick up horn A and it sounds bland, then I pick up horn B, and it sounds great (i.e. has character) then I'm going to buy horn B, you dig? Sherry, I too tried a bunch of horns at NAMM a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, the Keilworth bari was in it's case and I didn't want to bother taking it out. Bad move. Add me to the list of folks that think the Selmer II sound was the best. But not much better than the Yani 992. And what's wrong with Oleg's? I mean aside from him telling you your horn is for s#$t and that all you need is his neck for $800, the guy is okay :^) I've caught him on good days and bad days. Last time, a good day, he gave my boy a free plastic recorder when he started getting a bit bored. I haven't been to Manny's in years and I never took notice of bari's when I was there. Annie, I too would say that the Yamaha 52 sounds right up your alley. It is DEAD ON intonation wise and blends quite nicely in a sax section.
Sherry User ID: 1759784	Feb 7th 7:43 PM JoeP - Please do say Hi to Ira for me and tell him I'm studying with Steve Carr because I moved to the Valley. manofsteel - I didn't try the Keilwerth bari either at NAMM. Oleg tells me my horn is &%t, that my playing is &%t, and that he's god. It's boring and tiring.
Tom ed User ID: 2484284	Feb 7th 8:16 PM I'm bari shopping as well. A local music store has Yamaha 52s for $2600.00 until march 31. Try Gadsden Music Company, Inc. Gadsden Ala. 256 546-9381. Also wwbw price on ser80 ii as of today 4899.
Adam User ID: 9572103	Feb 7th 10:03 PM Hmm. I've seen several people mention how good the Selmer series II bari is based on the horn at the NAMM show. As far as Selmers go, that one was not too special (and needed some work too). I haven't played many newer Selmer baris (and was anxious to try the one at the show), but I hope most of them play better than that one did. My backup bari is a Keilwerth (now 12 years old, but I got it new), and I would definitely say that these are among the best sounding new baris available. I would say they sound way better than the series II based on the horn at the show... I think they are a hair cheaper than the Selmer too.
Bootman User ID: 2964484	Feb 7th 11:34 PM Just play the horn before you commit if possible, if not then get it through a reputable trader. If I was buying a new Bari, I would be chosing the Keilwerth based on specs. I was seriously tempted by a Temby Bari the other day because of the price more than anything else.
Dr. Ben User ID: 0658904	Feb 8th 12:18 AM Any saxophone model that has a positive reputation and is widely used is what I would refer to as a 'good' horn. Usually these horns (we're talking modern horns here) are from the "Big 4", i.e. Selmer, Yamaha, Keilwerth, and Yanagisawa. Of course, there are the Guardala and B&S horns (same German maker) that aren't as popular but are certainly competitive. These companies have been making saxophones for decades. The longevity of a company is usually based on the quality of their products, so the products of these particular horn manufacturers are bound to be good if not great. Any professional model saxophone from Selmer, Yamaha, Keilwerth, and Yanagisawa will have excellent intonation, sound, and build quality. No one can argue that. Since they're all good, it's then a matter of taste. You the player must decide what to pick upon trying all the horns. No one can decide for you. If there is any piece of equipment that would directly affect the "character of sound" it will be the mouthpiece and reed. But really, when it all comes down, the player is what you hear, NOT the saxophone. We don't say, "Oh Eric Alexander's saxophone sounds great." We say, "Oh that Eric Alexander sounds great." I myself prefer the Yamaha 62 bari only because I'm so used to the Yamaha feel with my Custom altos and tenor. But really, I would be happy with any pro bari from the other three of the Big 4. I'll sound like 'me' no matter which horn I play. And likewise, you'll sound like you no matter which brand you play. So have fun shopping for a new horn. After you pick one and buy it, be ready to impose your own character upon your new saxophone.
Anne User ID: 9976863	Feb 8th 8:07 AM Dr. Ben ... So can I assume that the negative opinions I've heard about the Yamahas and Yanis (in regards to construction quality) are based more on personal biases rather than fact? Or, does buying a "pro" horn from those makers eliminate some of those concerns? Still hoping to hear from some repairs techs or have some more people address quality of construction/longevity in addition to opinions of sound. Thanks all!
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	Feb 8th 8:46 AM manofsteel: On my 52 I've been using Runyon Quantums and also RIAs, all with Fibracell reeds. They have also all been hand faced, but were pretty good before. Anne: Construction comments are rarely based on good facts. Some are based on one bad experiance years ago that as either a fluke or has been fixed on the newer models. Other comments are "bad mouth" marketing. They dont carry that horn, so it must be bad. I could tell you the problems I've had with my 1987 52, but I dont think they are any more/less than other horns. I get some dents removed every 3-4 years (hopefully less now that I have a better gig bag). One thing I like about the Yamahas is the ability to regulate most of it with a screw driver. This feature is probably on other brands too by now. On the web I read the most good comments about Yani construction. So maybe the Yani is a "10" on the tank scale and some other horn you like is a "9", big deal. $ and ergonomics may be more important to your decision. 62s look nice, but do not play any better for me than 52s. So I had no reason to put a 62 neck on a 52 for a test. As for the low A, I play at least one every time I have the bari out. Today's music is full of them.
Fun Bun User ID: 8416263	Feb 8th 4:36 PM I played a Selmer Series II and a Yani. 992. For me, the Yani. won becasue I have a bad back and my right hand is has been injured in the past. The desiding factors were: 1. The sound of the horn was second is priority. 2. I needed a horn that was light in weight with great action and perfect hand positioning. The Yani. fit the bill. After the first day of rehearsal with that horn, the lead alto player said, "If you ever sell that horn, I'll buy it (the lead alto player in our band plays a Selmer Series 2 Bari)!!" So the sound of the horn was plenty able to cut through the the band! If has used it on blues gigs and it cut like crazy!!! Thus, the name King Kupka.
Dr. Ben User ID: 0658904	Feb 8th 5:18 PM Anne, What kind of quality are you looking for in construction? Are you looking for a horn that had its ribs and posts placed perfectly so that the fulcrum or pivot points allow each and every key cup to be exactly parallel to their respective tone hole along with perfect key heights with no play in rods, etc, etc? Or are you looking for a horn that can stand up to abuse with suitably alloyed brass and ribbed construction that would keep posts from getting displaced when hit and dings to a minimum? Or both? The pro baritone saxes from the major manufacturers are all well-made horns and thus eliminate most of the concerns with respect to quality of construction. That's why you pay the big bucks. I don't know where people get the notion that Yamaha and Yanagisawa saxes aren't as well built. As well built as what, a Selmer? OK... I'd like to hear factually based arguments on that. If you're worried about longevity and repair, that is up to how you handle it. If you take care of the horn it will outlive you. Guaranteed. Hope this helps.