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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Baritone Saxophone / HELP PLEASE!! Which Low-A bari to buy???

Next 20 Messages

Anne
User ID: 9976863 Feb 6th 4:39 PM
My situation ... I am a bari player in a community band and in a fairly recently formed saxtet, and am wanting to buy a new low-A bari. My current bari is a 70s Armstrong (made by Keilwerth however!) ... not a bad horn actually. But, I really feel I'm ready to "step up." (I've had it about 20 years, but have only been more serious about my music recently.)

I was really leaning towards the Yani 901, and then finally decided that I'd spring for the 991 because I hope to have this bari for the LONG haul. However, since making that decision, I made the mistake of continuing to ask for advice from others ... including my repair tech, who I really respect (and who really likes Yamahas and dislikes Yanis).

Oh, by the way, the Yamaha 52 is really cheap right now, because of a special promotion (around $2800), and the Yani is around $3200, if purchased from overseas. The 991 is less than $1K over the 901, and the Yamaha 62 is out of my range (as are Selmers, etc., if any of you want to suggest them).

ANYWAY ... everyone around here seems to REALLY dislike Yanis ... citing their early history, etc. In fact, one music store stated that he'd place Yani at the bottom of the Big Four, and that the Yamaha would "have better intonation, faster response, feel better, and hold adjustment better."

However, I have also read some really negative things on the Yamaha horns on the web ... so I don't know what to do now!

Also ... I should mention that I live in a fairly rural county of Calif., and I don't know how far I would have to go to try these horns out side by side ... at least four hours away, if not further. My repair tech feels that no one will have the Yani in stock anyway ... but I do know that I could try out the Yamaha locally.

Any advice would be MUCH appreciated!

Merlin
User ID: 8931733 Feb 6th 5:00 PM
They're citing Yani's early history to turn you off the horn? Why not mention how poorly put together some of Yamaha's saxes were early on?

If you're playing on a Keilwerth made horn, and you like it, why not look at a new instrument from the same maker?

RS
User ID: 1314254 Feb 6th 5:53 PM
Alot of players around here (SOTW) like Yanis. I'm partial to low Bb Mark VIs myself but wouldn't mind a low A Series II. I think when you get to the level of the big four it all comes down to individual taste and preference. The only real solution to your dilemma is to try all four. Low A bari is a big expense. It might be worth your while to make the trek to Frisco or L.A. to try each make.

RS
User ID: 1314254 Feb 6th 6:07 PM
Or if you've narrowed it down to Yamaha and Yani because of cost try to find a store that carries both.

Sherry
User ID: 8562343 Feb 6th 6:31 PM
Wow. The Yamaha 52 at $2800 is a great price. I have a Yani 901 and it's a great horn. In fact, I own, Yanis, Yamahas and a Selmer (if you count all my horns). In terms of build quality, overall construction, and ability of horns to stay in adjustment I'd rank my Yanis at the top of the horns I own, yamaha second, and Selmer last.

I live in LA where you'd think there would be plenty of horns to try and could not find many baris, let alone any store that had enough for me to try them side by side. I wouldn't recommend a trek to LA to try baris, you might find one of each brand if you are willing to do a couple hundred miles of driving in heavy traffic, but you won't get to try the ones you want to test side by side. When you do find one you'll be lucky if it's in adjustment enough to play. I ended up buying the Yani 901 based on research. I don't regret it, its a great horn, but I think I'd probably pick the 991 over the 901 if I were primarily a bari player.

Since then I did get to try a bunch of baris, in fact I tried them at NAMM. In terms of overall quality I'd put the Yani 991/992 at the very top of the list. The 901 is just as good but not as robust. Purely in terms of sound I'd pick the Selmer Series II.

If money is a major consideration, the Yamaha 52 is a great value. If pure value with some balance of cost/build quality/sound is your major concern then I'd pick the Yanagisawa. If sound is your primary concern and money no issue, I'd pick the Selmer Series II.

Anne
User ID: 9976863 Feb 6th 8:28 PM
I probably should have mentioned that when I bought my current horn, I didn't really shop for it ... it was quite honestly the only used bari around at the time (early 1980s -- pre-Internet shopping of course!). I'm not sure I'm a good enough player (yet?) to be too discriminating re: sound, so I guess I'm most concerned with QUALITY, in terms of having this new horn for many years, and having the fewest problems with intonation and staying in adjustment over the long haul. That's why I was particularly concerned when that one local shop (who claims to have had lots of Yanis come through for repair) acted as though they would be WORST of the big four in those respects. So, yes, Sherry, I'm definitely concerned about value and quality first. And, I'd love to hear from some repair techs out there.

I AM curious about how the Selmers sound different/better ... as I've seen another thread (in comparing the Big Four) where the writer mentioned that SOUND was where the Selmer bari won out. I know it's all subjective and hard to describe ... but any description might prove helpful.

Perhaps I should mention that I'm playing mostly community band stuff (lots of symphonic band pieces + pop stuff) and that the saxtet pieces we're doing are mostly older jazz (Ellington) or older pop. I'm not much into playing the more modern, edgy jazz.

Thanks everyone for your input!

OnyxSax
User ID: 9683713 Feb 6th 8:40 PM
You know I have to put a plug in for the vintage horns. If you can live without the low A, a well-maintained or well-restored Conn Chu would be cheaper than the Yamaha 52 and give you a better sound as well. Then Conn would be great for the Ellington stuff!

Okay, now that I've got that off my chest. If I had to go with a Low A horn, I'd go for the Yamaha 52. I may actually be using one myself whenever I send my Conn off to be restored.

Bootman
User ID: 2964484 Feb 7th 5:03 AM
Go for the Chu, it will eat the others alive. If you must have a low A also look out for a Couf Superba II Bari, it's a Keilwerth in disguise.

stevew
User ID: 7580153 Feb 7th 5:46 AM
My Yani B901 was just under $3k INCLUDING VAT as I am in the UK - it would be about 20% less to you in the US, so about $2500. This was from Matthews Music in Holland and it plays superbly. You can absolutely whisper on this horn, subtones all over, or it will rip and roar.

The rods are obviously long on a bari, and this is the only weakness on the 901, if you were too rough with it, it might suffer - but I think you'd have to move to a 991, Selmer II, Yamaha Custom or Keilwerth for a more solid build. The Yani 901 is a breeze to play and I thoroughly recommend it. Ask Matthews fr their best price, I got it for less than their website listed price. They do Yamaha too if that's your preference.

MusicMan
User ID: 0464054 Feb 7th 8:31 AM
I just went through the experience you are currently going through. Look down a little on this thread for "Playtested three of the big four".

I settled on, ordered and have received my Selmer SA80 II from Musique-et-Art about a week and a half ago. It is wonderful. The Yani 991 came in second in my testing and I almost bought it, although the cost difference was not that great compared to what I got the Selmer for.

From what I have heard about the Yani's is that they are built like tanks. The double arms on the bell keys are a great feature for keeping the low notes in adjustment. The one thing I hear from repairmen is the reason they don't like to work on them may be the reason they're so popular...they're built like tanks. The metal is stronger so it's harder to adjust.

In my play testing, the Selmer, Yani & Yamaha all had great actions. My decision came down to sound. The Yamaha was "hollow". It had no character or warmth. The Yani was much more complex and full sounding. The Selmer blew me away. My big band director remarked the first rehearsal I took my new Selmer to, "God, that thing has some power!" And I wasn't even blowing hard.

If you might consider an overseas purchase, checkout the posts under "Saxophone buying and selling". There are several dealers that are well worth the trouble. You will save big bucks. I saved $2700 over what a nearby dealer quoted me for his in stock Selmer.

MusicMan
User ID: 0464054 Feb 7th 8:53 AM
I just reread you post and you have evidently read my comparison post. I'll try to quantify my experience in a little more detail.

I could not playtest the horns side by side. As Sherry and others have pointed out, in some areas it can be difficult to find any stores that even stock baris.

The Yamahas sounded weak. Yes they could play loudly and were good intonation wise. I ultimately played both a 52 and 62. The 52 was cheap, price wise. It's a good school horn. Gee, it's hard to put something like this into words. You know how when you sing in a shower stall or elevator, the sound kind of reverbacates and you hear all the overtones and things seem to resonate. These horns didn't...and I played them in a normal room, not a special practice room designed to deaden sound. Empty, that's the best way to describe it.

The Selmer and Yani were very close. If the price difference from Musique-et-Art or Matthews had been greater, I would have bought the Yani. Also, if construction had been a factor, the Yani would have won.

Both had full complex voices. The Yani may have had the edge in action. Again, a side by side wans't possible. To my ear, though, from the players position, the Selmer was more powerful, deeper. I felt something with my body. The overtones seemed to ring clearer and the bottom notes punched you.

To use an automotive analogy, the Yamahas seemed like Chevy's...well built and a workhorse. The Yani was like a Porsche; quick precise and nimble. The Selmer was like a Bently or Rolls...

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 Feb 7th 9:01 AM
I find the choice of mouthpiece & reed to be like 10 times more important than the choice of the horn. Its also on the order of 10 times less expensive. So now you have a 100 to 1 bang for the buck on your sound. The point is if you have not explored MP/reed set-ups, dont beat yourself up too much on the sounds of the various saxes.

I'm quite happy with my YBS-52. I currently have 4 MP/reed setups that will vary the sound more than if I switched horns around.

manofsteel
User ID: 9084913 Feb 7th 1:14 PM
I'm in the market for a bari...I currently play on a borrowed Yamaha 52 low A. Very nice, dead on intonation, but alas, like others have stated, not much in way of character. Mojo, I've tried a few different mpc combos and can't really tell much diff in sound. But then again, all the mpcs are pretty closed and are all HR (Selmer C*, Sumner 4). I'm going to trial an Otto link 7* from WW&BW. Any other suggestions? I play in a sax quartet and a community band, but may start playing in a swing band if I can make the time.

Sherry, what music stores in LA did you try? Who had what? I live in the South Bay and Mars (which is closing down) only has student model baris. Did Mannys or Olegs have anything?
BTW, are you the one who took lessons from Ira? Have you spoken to him lately? He normally calls me when he has a spot open tuesdays and I haven't heard from him in a couple months. I hope he's okay.

Dr. Ben
User ID: 0658904 Feb 7th 2:41 PM
Go tell Denis Diblasio that his Yamaha baritone sax has no character. Geez...

If you're looking for a 'good' horn then buy a good horn. If you're looking for character, go practice some more.

Bootman
User ID: 2964484 Feb 7th 3:24 PM
If you wish to sound generic, then go for usual horns but if you desire to sound unique then take into account all the above advice and check it out for yourself. You are the one who has to live with the choice of horn, therefore youa re the one who has to do the research.

#1. Decide wether you need the Low A or not. If not, then look at vintage horns and se which horn best suits your need.

#2. If a Low A is important for you then look at all the modern Baris, most sound the same but the keywork may be the strong point of which horn you ultimately choose.

#3. Remember what works for myself or any other given player may not be the best choice for you. Play test all the horns you can before you choose.

#4. Try different mpc/reed set-ups because a set-up that doesn't work on one horn can work on another horn.

#5. Look to see what is available 2nd hand. You can often save yourself big dollars here.

#6. A Shiny horn doesn't make a lot of difference as to how it plays. The horn must be well regulated.

If anyone is selling or knows of a Martin Magna Low A Baritone, please let me know.

Anne
User ID: 9976863 Feb 7th 3:32 PM
Dr. Ben ... So how would YOU quantify a "good" horn ASIDE from issues of character? Care to make any suggestions as to makes and specific models? Just curious, because to simply say "buy a good horn" doesn't help me much, because that's what I'm trying to figure out on this forum ... how to determine just what a quality horn is, above and beyond how it sounds. (To continue an earlier automobile analogy ... I'm sure there are cars that drive BEAUTIFULLY but are nightmares to maintain, in terms of frequency of repair needed ... and I'm more inclined to want something reliable.) I agree with you that good sound/character will probably come with more practice ... and I'm sure that as, MojoBari said, reeds and mouthpieces can make a difference in sound/character as well.

To retrace a bit ... I've had people bash Yamaha's and others bash Yanis (in terms of their quality, not JUST their sound) ... and what I really want MOST is to have a horn that has good intonation, good response, stays in adjustment, is sturdy enough in its construction to have for many years, and is a good value for the money. (Yeah, I know that last one is the hard one ... but unfortunately, my budget is limited.) That's why I'm most interested in hearing from some of you repair techs out there!

I think I'll drive to the shop that bashed the Yanis ... to at least try the Yamahas (they have the 62 and 52 baris). I said it was local, but it's actually nearly 3 hours away ... but compared to L.A. or S.F., that's local! The cost there would be just under $3K total (with tax) for the 52, since they were willing to meet WW&BW's recently advertised 52 price.

One more side note ... (I know this is going to confuse the original discussion a bit) ... the shop owner suggested the 52, but paying $150 extra for the 62 neck as a improvement for the 52. Does that make sense to any of you out there?

Anne
User ID: 9976863 Feb 7th 3:43 PM
Bootman ... I posted the above to Dr. Ben before I read your post. Thanks for the very good advice! Yes, I do need to try some out to decide for myself, but that's very hard in terms of logistics/time. I think I might have to travel hundreds and hundreds of miles to be able to even play-test the Big Four baris. I guess I was just hoping to narrow down my choices before hitting the road ... based on reputation of quality (like I would if I was shopping for a car), and that's where the dramatically opposing opinions on quality (not just sound) have made it VERY difficult!

Yes, I do think I would love to have low A ... not so much for community band, but for the quartet/quintet stuff I'm doing now. It seems to crop up more and more.

Cashsax
User ID: 9014973 Feb 7th 4:03 PM
Selmer is the best for modern lo A bari..anything else don't matter anyway..but i'd get a german horn before a Y-------

Bootman
User ID: 2964484 Feb 7th 4:03 PM
Anne,
I never have any problem showing up with my Chu, a couple of notes from this horn and all are happy. I use my Baritone as a solo instrument, RnB horn Section plus Big Band work. I never have a problem with the lack of a low A. The only problem I have is that I get asked to play quieter. This particular model Baritone produces a bigger sound than any other Baritone I have ever played.

This is why I chose this Bari and not a Low A model although I have often thought about getting hold of a Low A for those very occassional times when it would be very useful to have one. I am tossing up now wether to buy a Low A Baritone or a Bass sax. The Bass is very tempting but the cost is so prohibitive particularly when converted to Aussie dollars.

MusicMan
User ID: 0464054 Feb 7th 4:08 PM
Bootman, I agree...the sound from my Buescher bari is more mellow than my new SA80 II, but because our band is playing more newer literature, I needed the low A...I'm still gonna have the "Big B"east on the stand for numbers that need it's vintage voice.

Next 20 Messages

Anne User ID: 9976863	Feb 6th 4:39 PM My situation ... I am a bari player in a community band and in a fairly recently formed saxtet, and am wanting to buy a new low-A bari. My current bari is a 70s Armstrong (made by Keilwerth however!) ... not a bad horn actually. But, I really feel I'm ready to "step up." (I've had it about 20 years, but have only been more serious about my music recently.) I was really leaning towards the Yani 901, and then finally decided that I'd spring for the 991 because I hope to have this bari for the LONG haul. However, since making that decision, I made the mistake of continuing to ask for advice from others ... including my repair tech, who I really respect (and who really likes Yamahas and dislikes Yanis). Oh, by the way, the Yamaha 52 is really cheap right now, because of a special promotion (around $2800), and the Yani is around $3200, if purchased from overseas. The 991 is less than $1K over the 901, and the Yamaha 62 is out of my range (as are Selmers, etc., if any of you want to suggest them). ANYWAY ... everyone around here seems to REALLY dislike Yanis ... citing their early history, etc. In fact, one music store stated that he'd place Yani at the bottom of the Big Four, and that the Yamaha would "have better intonation, faster response, feel better, and hold adjustment better." However, I have also read some really negative things on the Yamaha horns on the web ... so I don't know what to do now! Also ... I should mention that I live in a fairly rural county of Calif., and I don't know how far I would have to go to try these horns out side by side ... at least four hours away, if not further. My repair tech feels that no one will have the Yani in stock anyway ... but I do know that I could try out the Yamaha locally. Any advice would be MUCH appreciated!
Merlin User ID: 8931733	Feb 6th 5:00 PM They're citing Yani's early history to turn you off the horn? Why not mention how poorly put together some of Yamaha's saxes were early on? If you're playing on a Keilwerth made horn, and you like it, why not look at a new instrument from the same maker?
RS User ID: 1314254	Feb 6th 5:53 PM Alot of players around here (SOTW) like Yanis. I'm partial to low Bb Mark VIs myself but wouldn't mind a low A Series II. I think when you get to the level of the big four it all comes down to individual taste and preference. The only real solution to your dilemma is to try all four. Low A bari is a big expense. It might be worth your while to make the trek to Frisco or L.A. to try each make.
RS User ID: 1314254	Feb 6th 6:07 PM Or if you've narrowed it down to Yamaha and Yani because of cost try to find a store that carries both.
Sherry User ID: 8562343	Feb 6th 6:31 PM Wow. The Yamaha 52 at $2800 is a great price. I have a Yani 901 and it's a great horn. In fact, I own, Yanis, Yamahas and a Selmer (if you count all my horns). In terms of build quality, overall construction, and ability of horns to stay in adjustment I'd rank my Yanis at the top of the horns I own, yamaha second, and Selmer last. I live in LA where you'd think there would be plenty of horns to try and could not find many baris, let alone any store that had enough for me to try them side by side. I wouldn't recommend a trek to LA to try baris, you might find one of each brand if you are willing to do a couple hundred miles of driving in heavy traffic, but you won't get to try the ones you want to test side by side. When you do find one you'll be lucky if it's in adjustment enough to play. I ended up buying the Yani 901 based on research. I don't regret it, its a great horn, but I think I'd probably pick the 991 over the 901 if I were primarily a bari player. Since then I did get to try a bunch of baris, in fact I tried them at NAMM. In terms of overall quality I'd put the Yani 991/992 at the very top of the list. The 901 is just as good but not as robust. Purely in terms of sound I'd pick the Selmer Series II. If money is a major consideration, the Yamaha 52 is a great value. If pure value with some balance of cost/build quality/sound is your major concern then I'd pick the Yanagisawa. If sound is your primary concern and money no issue, I'd pick the Selmer Series II.
Anne User ID: 9976863	Feb 6th 8:28 PM I probably should have mentioned that when I bought my current horn, I didn't really shop for it ... it was quite honestly the only used bari around at the time (early 1980s -- pre-Internet shopping of course!). I'm not sure I'm a good enough player (yet?) to be too discriminating re: sound, so I guess I'm most concerned with QUALITY, in terms of having this new horn for many years, and having the fewest problems with intonation and staying in adjustment over the long haul. That's why I was particularly concerned when that one local shop (who claims to have had lots of Yanis come through for repair) acted as though they would be WORST of the big four in those respects. So, yes, Sherry, I'm definitely concerned about value and quality first. And, I'd love to hear from some repair techs out there. I AM curious about how the Selmers sound different/better ... as I've seen another thread (in comparing the Big Four) where the writer mentioned that SOUND was where the Selmer bari won out. I know it's all subjective and hard to describe ... but any description might prove helpful. Perhaps I should mention that I'm playing mostly community band stuff (lots of symphonic band pieces + pop stuff) and that the saxtet pieces we're doing are mostly older jazz (Ellington) or older pop. I'm not much into playing the more modern, edgy jazz. Thanks everyone for your input!
OnyxSax User ID: 9683713	Feb 6th 8:40 PM You know I have to put a plug in for the vintage horns. If you can live without the low A, a well-maintained or well-restored Conn Chu would be cheaper than the Yamaha 52 and give you a better sound as well. Then Conn would be great for the Ellington stuff! Okay, now that I've got that off my chest. If I had to go with a Low A horn, I'd go for the Yamaha 52. I may actually be using one myself whenever I send my Conn off to be restored.
Bootman User ID: 2964484	Feb 7th 5:03 AM Go for the Chu, it will eat the others alive. If you must have a low A also look out for a Couf Superba II Bari, it's a Keilwerth in disguise.
stevew User ID: 7580153	Feb 7th 5:46 AM My Yani B901 was just under $3k INCLUDING VAT as I am in the UK - it would be about 20% less to you in the US, so about $2500. This was from Matthews Music in Holland and it plays superbly. You can absolutely whisper on this horn, subtones all over, or it will rip and roar. The rods are obviously long on a bari, and this is the only weakness on the 901, if you were too rough with it, it might suffer - but I think you'd have to move to a 991, Selmer II, Yamaha Custom or Keilwerth for a more solid build. The Yani 901 is a breeze to play and I thoroughly recommend it. Ask Matthews fr their best price, I got it for less than their website listed price. They do Yamaha too if that's your preference.
MusicMan User ID: 0464054	Feb 7th 8:31 AM I just went through the experience you are currently going through. Look down a little on this thread for "Playtested three of the big four". I settled on, ordered and have received my Selmer SA80 II from Musique-et-Art about a week and a half ago. It is wonderful. The Yani 991 came in second in my testing and I almost bought it, although the cost difference was not that great compared to what I got the Selmer for. From what I have heard about the Yani's is that they are built like tanks. The double arms on the bell keys are a great feature for keeping the low notes in adjustment. The one thing I hear from repairmen is the reason they don't like to work on them may be the reason they're so popular...they're built like tanks. The metal is stronger so it's harder to adjust. In my play testing, the Selmer, Yani & Yamaha all had great actions. My decision came down to sound. The Yamaha was "hollow". It had no character or warmth. The Yani was much more complex and full sounding. The Selmer blew me away. My big band director remarked the first rehearsal I took my new Selmer to, "God, that thing has some power!" And I wasn't even blowing hard. If you might consider an overseas purchase, checkout the posts under "Saxophone buying and selling". There are several dealers that are well worth the trouble. You will save big bucks. I saved $2700 over what a nearby dealer quoted me for his in stock Selmer.
MusicMan User ID: 0464054	Feb 7th 8:53 AM I just reread you post and you have evidently read my comparison post. I'll try to quantify my experience in a little more detail. I could not playtest the horns side by side. As Sherry and others have pointed out, in some areas it can be difficult to find any stores that even stock baris. The Yamahas sounded weak. Yes they could play loudly and were good intonation wise. I ultimately played both a 52 and 62. The 52 was cheap, price wise. It's a good school horn. Gee, it's hard to put something like this into words. You know how when you sing in a shower stall or elevator, the sound kind of reverbacates and you hear all the overtones and things seem to resonate. These horns didn't...and I played them in a normal room, not a special practice room designed to deaden sound. Empty, that's the best way to describe it. The Selmer and Yani were very close. If the price difference from Musique-et-Art or Matthews had been greater, I would have bought the Yani. Also, if construction had been a factor, the Yani would have won. Both had full complex voices. The Yani may have had the edge in action. Again, a side by side wans't possible. To my ear, though, from the players position, the Selmer was more powerful, deeper. I felt something with my body. The overtones seemed to ring clearer and the bottom notes punched you. To use an automotive analogy, the Yamahas seemed like Chevy's...well built and a workhorse. The Yani was like a Porsche; quick precise and nimble. The Selmer was like a Bently or Rolls...
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	Feb 7th 9:01 AM I find the choice of mouthpiece & reed to be like 10 times more important than the choice of the horn. Its also on the order of 10 times less expensive. So now you have a 100 to 1 bang for the buck on your sound. The point is if you have not explored MP/reed set-ups, dont beat yourself up too much on the sounds of the various saxes. I'm quite happy with my YBS-52. I currently have 4 MP/reed setups that will vary the sound more than if I switched horns around.
manofsteel User ID: 9084913	Feb 7th 1:14 PM I'm in the market for a bari...I currently play on a borrowed Yamaha 52 low A. Very nice, dead on intonation, but alas, like others have stated, not much in way of character. Mojo, I've tried a few different mpc combos and can't really tell much diff in sound. But then again, all the mpcs are pretty closed and are all HR (Selmer C, Sumner 4). I'm going to trial an Otto link 7 from WW&BW. Any other suggestions? I play in a sax quartet and a community band, but may start playing in a swing band if I can make the time. Sherry, what music stores in LA did you try? Who had what? I live in the South Bay and Mars (which is closing down) only has student model baris. Did Mannys or Olegs have anything? BTW, are you the one who took lessons from Ira? Have you spoken to him lately? He normally calls me when he has a spot open tuesdays and I haven't heard from him in a couple months. I hope he's okay.
Dr. Ben User ID: 0658904	Feb 7th 2:41 PM Go tell Denis Diblasio that his Yamaha baritone sax has no character. Geez... If you're looking for a 'good' horn then buy a good horn. If you're looking for character, go practice some more.
Bootman User ID: 2964484	Feb 7th 3:24 PM If you wish to sound generic, then go for usual horns but if you desire to sound unique then take into account all the above advice and check it out for yourself. You are the one who has to live with the choice of horn, therefore youa re the one who has to do the research. #1. Decide wether you need the Low A or not. If not, then look at vintage horns and se which horn best suits your need. #2. If a Low A is important for you then look at all the modern Baris, most sound the same but the keywork may be the strong point of which horn you ultimately choose. #3. Remember what works for myself or any other given player may not be the best choice for you. Play test all the horns you can before you choose. #4. Try different mpc/reed set-ups because a set-up that doesn't work on one horn can work on another horn. #5. Look to see what is available 2nd hand. You can often save yourself big dollars here. #6. A Shiny horn doesn't make a lot of difference as to how it plays. The horn must be well regulated. If anyone is selling or knows of a Martin Magna Low A Baritone, please let me know.
Anne User ID: 9976863	Feb 7th 3:32 PM Dr. Ben ... So how would YOU quantify a "good" horn ASIDE from issues of character? Care to make any suggestions as to makes and specific models? Just curious, because to simply say "buy a good horn" doesn't help me much, because that's what I'm trying to figure out on this forum ... how to determine just what a quality horn is, above and beyond how it sounds. (To continue an earlier automobile analogy ... I'm sure there are cars that drive BEAUTIFULLY but are nightmares to maintain, in terms of frequency of repair needed ... and I'm more inclined to want something reliable.) I agree with you that good sound/character will probably come with more practice ... and I'm sure that as, MojoBari said, reeds and mouthpieces can make a difference in sound/character as well. To retrace a bit ... I've had people bash Yamaha's and others bash Yanis (in terms of their quality, not JUST their sound) ... and what I really want MOST is to have a horn that has good intonation, good response, stays in adjustment, is sturdy enough in its construction to have for many years, and is a good value for the money. (Yeah, I know that last one is the hard one ... but unfortunately, my budget is limited.) That's why I'm most interested in hearing from some of you repair techs out there! I think I'll drive to the shop that bashed the Yanis ... to at least try the Yamahas (they have the 62 and 52 baris). I said it was local, but it's actually nearly 3 hours away ... but compared to L.A. or S.F., that's local! The cost there would be just under $3K total (with tax) for the 52, since they were willing to meet WW&BW's recently advertised 52 price. One more side note ... (I know this is going to confuse the original discussion a bit) ... the shop owner suggested the 52, but paying $150 extra for the 62 neck as a improvement for the 52. Does that make sense to any of you out there?
Anne User ID: 9976863	Feb 7th 3:43 PM Bootman ... I posted the above to Dr. Ben before I read your post. Thanks for the very good advice! Yes, I do need to try some out to decide for myself, but that's very hard in terms of logistics/time. I think I might have to travel hundreds and hundreds of miles to be able to even play-test the Big Four baris. I guess I was just hoping to narrow down my choices before hitting the road ... based on reputation of quality (like I would if I was shopping for a car), and that's where the dramatically opposing opinions on quality (not just sound) have made it VERY difficult! Yes, I do think I would love to have low A ... not so much for community band, but for the quartet/quintet stuff I'm doing now. It seems to crop up more and more.
Cashsax User ID: 9014973	Feb 7th 4:03 PM Selmer is the best for modern lo A bari..anything else don't matter anyway..but i'd get a german horn before a Y-------
Bootman User ID: 2964484	Feb 7th 4:03 PM Anne, I never have any problem showing up with my Chu, a couple of notes from this horn and all are happy. I use my Baritone as a solo instrument, RnB horn Section plus Big Band work. I never have a problem with the lack of a low A. The only problem I have is that I get asked to play quieter. This particular model Baritone produces a bigger sound than any other Baritone I have ever played. This is why I chose this Bari and not a Low A model although I have often thought about getting hold of a Low A for those very occassional times when it would be very useful to have one. I am tossing up now wether to buy a Low A Baritone or a Bass sax. The Bass is very tempting but the cost is so prohibitive particularly when converted to Aussie dollars.
MusicMan User ID: 0464054	Feb 7th 4:08 PM Bootman, I agree...the sound from my Buescher bari is more mellow than my new SA80 II, but because our band is playing more newer literature, I needed the low A...I'm still gonna have the "Big B"east on the stand for numbers that need it's vintage voice.