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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Altissimo & Multiphonics / baritone altissimo

barron
User ID: 0638514 Feb 1st 3:29 AM
I have been playing for more than 20 + years and do fine with altissimo on Tenor (my main axe )and alto--but some how on Baritone it becomes another story. Using similar fingerings for the above horns on Baritone I tend to jump up an extra octave. Ronnie Cuber clearly does well with it. I believe this topic has been discussed before any suggestions?

Bootman Feb 1st 5:41 AM
The fingerings for altissimo on Baritone are somewhat different to tenor and alto. It also requires a slightly different throat position to be able to pull it off well. I suggest gettting a copy of saxophone altissimo by Dr Robert A Luckey. It is a very comprehensive book on the subject and does deal with Baritone issues.

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 Feb 1st 8:12 AM
The Luckey book is the real deal. I've been 'shedin' these for the last 2 months. The bari needs a separate set of fingerings for intonation. Some of the traditional alto/tenor fingerings are 1/2 step flat on bari. I also found a set-up change helped me initially. Now I can get up to G4 on my old set-up too. I have the most problems getting good A3, Bb4, B4 and C4. I have found fingerings that have great intonation, but the response and timbre take a little more work. G3 and Ab3 (just over the normal high F) pop nicely and sound great. Most of the fingerings connect well, but there are a few akward ones with the best intonation. Its like learning 3rd register flute fingerings.

On tenor and alto, the G3 and Ab3 are usually more difficult. But Luckey had some fingerings that helped me here too. Not the problem is keeping them straight in your head when playing different saxes.

Mike R.
User ID: 0213374 Feb 1st 8:19 AM
Mojo, how about sharing the G3 and Ab3 fingerings with those of us who haven't gotten the book yet?

barron
User ID: 0638514 Feb 1st 2:40 PM
Thanks all will track down the Luckey book.

MojoBari
User ID: 1195644 Feb 4th 4:19 PM
I can tell you what works for me with my equipment, but they may be slighlty sharp/flat for you. That is where is is nice to have several other stable fingerings to try out.

F3: Tf_2_/_5_ (5 or 6 finger needed or its sharp)
F#3: Tf_2_/___ with side Bb
G3: T 1_3/___ with side Bb
Ab3: T 1_3/_5_ with side C

f=front F, T=octave key

mutha potamus
User ID: 8248813 Feb 4th 4:30 PM
I know that this is a bit off subject here but MojoBari unknowingly made my day a bit more confusing.

Here's the question: If "A1" on tenor & alto is fingered L 1 & 2, what do you call the low A on most baris? "A -minus-1"?

I know that in the great scheme of life this isn't really an important question, but the trivia vacuum that is the dull gray matter in my skull won't be denied.

Jack W.
User ID: 8005213 Feb 4th 8:27 PM
If it is the same as with flute, it may be called "A0". The lowest standard note on flute is C1, but I have seen the low B possible with a B footjoint called, unbelievably, "B0".

There's always "low A". :)

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 Feb 5th 12:24 PM
Paul C. explained this in another thread, 'cause I didn't know this either 'till then. He says low A is "A0".

Paul C.
User ID: 0784604 Feb 5th 3:15 PM
Of course, (A0)what else?

Fingerings for bari A3 on up, from Kent Minor in Chicago:

A3: OK, LH2, LH3, G# key (to bring it up to pitch, as on tenor)

Bb4: Same as A3, but add palm D

B4: Same as A3, but add palm D and palm Eb

C4: Save as A3, but add palm D, palm Eb, high E keys

Db4: Same as A3, but add palm D, palm Eb, high E, and palm F keys.

D4: Same as A3.

Eb4: Same as Bb4.

E4: Same as B4.

F4: Same as C4.

F#4: Same as Db4.

MojoBari
User ID: 1320554 Feb 7th 11:51 AM
Tried them last night. That A3 speaks a little better than the "Ronnie Cuber" one I was using: T _23/45_. For me, the above B4 is sharp and the C4 is very sharp. They can be easily lipped down, but the B4 can be brought into tune by closing the high D key. This helps the C4 too, but for me I still need to lip it down some. There are more in tune fingerings for the C4 in the Luckey book, but they are awkward and hard to remember. The remaining Db4-F#4 fingerings above are all sharp for me, but they are easy to remember. I've picked out some more stable and in tune fingerings. I have them memorized, but I just need to get the playing speed up.

barron
User ID: 0638514 Feb 12th 11:43 AM
I will try a variety of all the above suggestions many thanks!

Power Chops May 11th 4:55 PM
There is a guy in Memphis Stan Johnson who sells these card stock charts that can be used as book markers. They have great altissimo tips and fingerings. He also sells a card called Windjammer that offers all of the fake fingers or fingers pros like Bird used to faciliate speed. I found out about them several years ago through the saxophone Journal. They really have work for me! His address is 695 Dickinson St Memphis Tennessee and the cards sell for $2.50 plus 1.00 shipping. They are called altissimo guides and are available for all saxophones!

StackedSax
User ID: 0130044 Jun 28th 1:25 PM
Thanks for the tip on the Luckey book. I've used the thing for a week now and have already extended my range immeasurably. Exactly the thing I've been looking for. Thanks again,

-SS

George Briscoe
User ID: 9161143 Oct 23rd 5:08 AM
In 1980, sax great Tony Campise (former lead alto of the Stan Kenton Orchestra) showed me how he played the entire altissimo range as just an extension of the range of the sax: He pushed the octave key, then held ALL of his other fingers OFF of the keys and played a chromatic scale from altissimo A up into the stratosphere! It's ALL having to do with your ears, airstream, lip feel, and, when it comes down to it, "using The Force, Luke". Fingerings are just ways to help out. Each of my tenors (two Mk. VIs and a Conn) are different and all three of my baris are different. Experiment and learn. The books are helpful, of course, but when it comes down to it, if it were easy, everyone would be able to do it. There's a reason that the old cats are respected for their playing. Work hard and be patient, young Skywalker...

kevvieg
User ID: 0289604 Nov 14th 7:54 AM
For the record, I use the fingerings attributed to Kent Minor (SP?)above. Having four fingerings and taking them through the overtone series ahs worked for me.Like Briscoe, I believe that using your ears and making slight adjustments with your airstream will bring the notes into pitch.

barron User ID: 0638514	Feb 1st 3:29 AM I have been playing for more than 20 + years and do fine with altissimo on Tenor (my main axe )and alto--but some how on Baritone it becomes another story. Using similar fingerings for the above horns on Baritone I tend to jump up an extra octave. Ronnie Cuber clearly does well with it. I believe this topic has been discussed before any suggestions?
Bootman	Feb 1st 5:41 AM The fingerings for altissimo on Baritone are somewhat different to tenor and alto. It also requires a slightly different throat position to be able to pull it off well. I suggest gettting a copy of saxophone altissimo by Dr Robert A Luckey. It is a very comprehensive book on the subject and does deal with Baritone issues.
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	Feb 1st 8:12 AM The Luckey book is the real deal. I've been 'shedin' these for the last 2 months. The bari needs a separate set of fingerings for intonation. Some of the traditional alto/tenor fingerings are 1/2 step flat on bari. I also found a set-up change helped me initially. Now I can get up to G4 on my old set-up too. I have the most problems getting good A3, Bb4, B4 and C4. I have found fingerings that have great intonation, but the response and timbre take a little more work. G3 and Ab3 (just over the normal high F) pop nicely and sound great. Most of the fingerings connect well, but there are a few akward ones with the best intonation. Its like learning 3rd register flute fingerings. On tenor and alto, the G3 and Ab3 are usually more difficult. But Luckey had some fingerings that helped me here too. Not the problem is keeping them straight in your head when playing different saxes.
Mike R. User ID: 0213374	Feb 1st 8:19 AM Mojo, how about sharing the G3 and Ab3 fingerings with those of us who haven't gotten the book yet?
barron User ID: 0638514	Feb 1st 2:40 PM Thanks all will track down the Luckey book.
MojoBari User ID: 1195644	Feb 4th 4:19 PM I can tell you what works for me with my equipment, but they may be slighlty sharp/flat for you. That is where is is nice to have several other stable fingerings to try out. F3: Tf_2_/_5_ (5 or 6 finger needed or its sharp) F#3: Tf_2_/___ with side Bb G3: T 1_3/___ with side Bb Ab3: T 1_3/_5_ with side C f=front F, T=octave key
mutha potamus User ID: 8248813	Feb 4th 4:30 PM I know that this is a bit off subject here but MojoBari unknowingly made my day a bit more confusing. Here's the question: If "A1" on tenor & alto is fingered L 1 & 2, what do you call the low A on most baris? "A -minus-1"? I know that in the great scheme of life this isn't really an important question, but the trivia vacuum that is the dull gray matter in my skull won't be denied.
Jack W. User ID: 8005213	Feb 4th 8:27 PM If it is the same as with flute, it may be called "A0". The lowest standard note on flute is C1, but I have seen the low B possible with a B footjoint called, unbelievably, "B0". There's always "low A". :)
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	Feb 5th 12:24 PM Paul C. explained this in another thread, 'cause I didn't know this either 'till then. He says low A is "A0".
Paul C. User ID: 0784604	Feb 5th 3:15 PM Of course, (A0)what else? Fingerings for bari A3 on up, from Kent Minor in Chicago: A3: OK, LH2, LH3, G# key (to bring it up to pitch, as on tenor) Bb4: Same as A3, but add palm D B4: Same as A3, but add palm D and palm Eb C4: Save as A3, but add palm D, palm Eb, high E keys Db4: Same as A3, but add palm D, palm Eb, high E, and palm F keys. D4: Same as A3. Eb4: Same as Bb4. E4: Same as B4. F4: Same as C4. F#4: Same as Db4.
MojoBari User ID: 1320554	Feb 7th 11:51 AM Tried them last night. That A3 speaks a little better than the "Ronnie Cuber" one I was using: T _23/45_. For me, the above B4 is sharp and the C4 is very sharp. They can be easily lipped down, but the B4 can be brought into tune by closing the high D key. This helps the C4 too, but for me I still need to lip it down some. There are more in tune fingerings for the C4 in the Luckey book, but they are awkward and hard to remember. The remaining Db4-F#4 fingerings above are all sharp for me, but they are easy to remember. I've picked out some more stable and in tune fingerings. I have them memorized, but I just need to get the playing speed up.
barron User ID: 0638514	Feb 12th 11:43 AM I will try a variety of all the above suggestions many thanks!
Power Chops	May 11th 4:55 PM There is a guy in Memphis Stan Johnson who sells these card stock charts that can be used as book markers. They have great altissimo tips and fingerings. He also sells a card called Windjammer that offers all of the fake fingers or fingers pros like Bird used to faciliate speed. I found out about them several years ago through the saxophone Journal. They really have work for me! His address is 695 Dickinson St Memphis Tennessee and the cards sell for $2.50 plus 1.00 shipping. They are called altissimo guides and are available for all saxophones!
StackedSax User ID: 0130044	Jun 28th 1:25 PM Thanks for the tip on the Luckey book. I've used the thing for a week now and have already extended my range immeasurably. Exactly the thing I've been looking for. Thanks again, -SS
George Briscoe User ID: 9161143	Oct 23rd 5:08 AM In 1980, sax great Tony Campise (former lead alto of the Stan Kenton Orchestra) showed me how he played the entire altissimo range as just an extension of the range of the sax: He pushed the octave key, then held ALL of his other fingers OFF of the keys and played a chromatic scale from altissimo A up into the stratosphere! It's ALL having to do with your ears, airstream, lip feel, and, when it comes down to it, "using The Force, Luke". Fingerings are just ways to help out. Each of my tenors (two Mk. VIs and a Conn) are different and all three of my baris are different. Experiment and learn. The books are helpful, of course, but when it comes down to it, if it were easy, everyone would be able to do it. There's a reason that the old cats are respected for their playing. Work hard and be patient, young Skywalker...
kevvieg User ID: 0289604	Nov 14th 7:54 AM For the record, I use the fingerings attributed to Kent Minor (SP?)above. Having four fingerings and taking them through the overtone series ahs worked for me.Like Briscoe, I believe that using your ears and making slight adjustments with your airstream will bring the notes into pitch.