Sax on the Web Forum

Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Altissimo & Multiphonics / Anyone play without the octave key?

Yoni
User ID: 9321503 Oct 30th 9:16 AM
I'm stuck on this Bundy II alto, which, needless to say, sounds a bit "thin" compared to the Mark VI I used to own several years ago! But I figured out that if I play the second octave and up without using the octave key (or using the low fingerings for the second b-flat, b, c, and c-sharp), it really gives it a much "richer" or more "complex" sound, I guess because of the added overtones (or "undertones" in this case -- i.e. the fundamental that's really coming from the lower octave).

Also, after getting the "feel" of the sound created that way (by playing a longtone), I go back and use the regular finguring and try to "duplicate" the sound. I can actually get a much nicer tone this way than if I just tried to play "normally."

Just wondering if anyone else does this.

stevew
User ID: 8868883 Oct 30th 10:16 AM
Another interesting trick is to use the palm keys, and the side C and high F# (if you have one) as octave keys for the relative note - e.g. play low F and use the F palm key instead of an octave key. The D version of this is a common workaround for a stuffy D on tenor sax.

Yoni
User ID: 9321503 Oct 30th 10:38 AM
Cool, I'm getting home from work tonight too late to bother the neighbors, but I can't wait to try it...

max
User ID: 8346323 Oct 30th 11:48 AM
"I go back and use the regular finguring and try to "duplicate" the sound"

This is essentially the same as the matching exercise when working with overtones. As you've discovered, it's very useful! :)

Jamie
User ID: 9544623 Nov 3rd 8:18 AM
I kind of like the regular fingerings, myself.

baga
User ID: 6939693 Nov 4th 6:19 AM
I don't use the octave key at all.
Except when making bends down - cause I haven't controlled it yet (lowering notes without dropping an octave down after some half tones). But I don't do bends right now, cause I'm focused on tuning well first..other things in general.
Altissimo works too...I mean without the octave key.
Makes me play slower, but recently I tried using the octave key (after 3-4 months of omitting it) and it seemed... AWKWARD!?;)
I wonder.. I feel weird because of that, cause the rest of the people I know use the octave key. Maybe I'm stupid or something?

sopraonplayer
User ID: 1711124 Nov 4th 6:27 AM
Nothing wrong with not using the octave key.
I often slide up and down on the sax with just my throat and tongue work. Going into altissimo and multiphonics without the octave key gives some nice halloween sounds in certain occations.

John Laughter
User ID: 9586293 Nov 4th 6:52 PM
Yoni, I met a blues sax player in the 50s who put tape over the neck octave key hole. He told me that it helped to produce a more raunchy tone. Since he could never break the habit of pushing the octave key he decided to add the tape.

I never gave it more thought until several years ago when, by accident, I was playing w/o the octave key in the mid range on tenor and began hearing, as you said, some neat sounding overtones. A combination of both the middle octave and low octave notes at the same time. I later saw a discussion about this idea on a message board. They referred to it as "split tones."

I now play a lot w/o the octave on alto and tenor when playing dance music. You can also relax the jaw and adjust the air stream for an "in and out" effect which sounds good on certain songs if you are into that particular tone.

At any rate, it is apparently another technique that has been around for many years and it does give the impression of fattening the tone in a way.

Danny Barrett
User ID: 1084044 Nov 5th 12:19 AM
baga,
it's interesting that you say that you found it awquard to play using the octave key after not using it for a 3-4 months. On Sunday I was playing around with upper register notes without the octave key for 3-4 *minutes*, and I found it awquard to go back to using the octave key! So don't feel bad about finding it awquard after not using it for such a long time - it's only to be expected.

Yoni User ID: 9321503	Oct 30th 9:16 AM I'm stuck on this Bundy II alto, which, needless to say, sounds a bit "thin" compared to the Mark VI I used to own several years ago! But I figured out that if I play the second octave and up without using the octave key (or using the low fingerings for the second b-flat, b, c, and c-sharp), it really gives it a much "richer" or more "complex" sound, I guess because of the added overtones (or "undertones" in this case -- i.e. the fundamental that's really coming from the lower octave). Also, after getting the "feel" of the sound created that way (by playing a longtone), I go back and use the regular finguring and try to "duplicate" the sound. I can actually get a much nicer tone this way than if I just tried to play "normally." Just wondering if anyone else does this.
stevew User ID: 8868883	Oct 30th 10:16 AM Another interesting trick is to use the palm keys, and the side C and high F# (if you have one) as octave keys for the relative note - e.g. play low F and use the F palm key instead of an octave key. The D version of this is a common workaround for a stuffy D on tenor sax.
Yoni User ID: 9321503	Oct 30th 10:38 AM Cool, I'm getting home from work tonight too late to bother the neighbors, but I can't wait to try it...
max User ID: 8346323	Oct 30th 11:48 AM "I go back and use the regular finguring and try to "duplicate" the sound" This is essentially the same as the matching exercise when working with overtones. As you've discovered, it's very useful! :)
Jamie User ID: 9544623	Nov 3rd 8:18 AM I kind of like the regular fingerings, myself.
baga User ID: 6939693	Nov 4th 6:19 AM I don't use the octave key at all. Except when making bends down - cause I haven't controlled it yet (lowering notes without dropping an octave down after some half tones). But I don't do bends right now, cause I'm focused on tuning well first..other things in general. Altissimo works too...I mean without the octave key. Makes me play slower, but recently I tried using the octave key (after 3-4 months of omitting it) and it seemed... AWKWARD!?;) I wonder.. I feel weird because of that, cause the rest of the people I know use the octave key. Maybe I'm stupid or something?
sopraonplayer User ID: 1711124	Nov 4th 6:27 AM Nothing wrong with not using the octave key. I often slide up and down on the sax with just my throat and tongue work. Going into altissimo and multiphonics without the octave key gives some nice halloween sounds in certain occations.
John Laughter User ID: 9586293	Nov 4th 6:52 PM Yoni, I met a blues sax player in the 50s who put tape over the neck octave key hole. He told me that it helped to produce a more raunchy tone. Since he could never break the habit of pushing the octave key he decided to add the tape. I never gave it more thought until several years ago when, by accident, I was playing w/o the octave key in the mid range on tenor and began hearing, as you said, some neat sounding overtones. A combination of both the middle octave and low octave notes at the same time. I later saw a discussion about this idea on a message board. They referred to it as "split tones." I now play a lot w/o the octave on alto and tenor when playing dance music. You can also relax the jaw and adjust the air stream for an "in and out" effect which sounds good on certain songs if you are into that particular tone. At any rate, it is apparently another technique that has been around for many years and it does give the impression of fattening the tone in a way.
Danny Barrett User ID: 1084044	Nov 5th 12:19 AM baga, it's interesting that you say that you found it awquard to play using the octave key after not using it for a 3-4 months. On Sunday I was playing around with upper register notes without the octave key for 3-4 minutes, and I found it awquard to go back to using the octave key! So don't feel bad about finding it awquard after not using it for such a long time - it's only to be expected.