Sax on the Web Forum

Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Altissimo & Multiphonics / Trouble

Mike
User ID: 2059234 Jan 28th 2:50 PM
Hey all,
I was on Saxgourmet.com doing some altissimo (my first few notes) and i was having trouble getting them all out. Is there something im doing wrong? IM doing a normal embouchure and I'm kinda lost. Thanks for reading,
~MIKE~

Harri
User ID: 0262034 Jan 28th 3:01 PM
I am no specialist on the topic. Just speaking based own my own experience. I had been playing alto for almost ten years before I was introduced to altissimo sounds by a teacher. I learned that producing altissimo is very muach dependent on your horn, embouchure and your ability vary it.

I guess there no short-cuts, just keep working on it. I can do G and A pretty fluently, but above A still needs work.

Cougar Brass
User ID: 0046004 Jan 28th 3:02 PM
First, go here

http://www.bobrk.com/saxfaq/2.5.html

Some good info there.

Then go to my favorite fingering site:

http://www.wfg.sneezy.org/

Just click on Altissimo under saxophone. The layout is a little easier to read than the one at Saxgourmet.

3saxes
User ID: 1397584 Jan 28th 4:17 PM
To Achieve Altissimo takes more than just knowing the fingering. There are three good books on the topic that will teach you the theory and technique as well as give suggested fingering for each note on each horn.
"Top-Tones for the Saxophone" Sigurd M. Rascher/Carl Fischer
"Saxophone ALtissimo" - Robert A. Luckey
"Saxophone High Notes" - Eugene Rousseau
I think these are all available on Amazon.com, or via the Woodwind and Brasswind in South Bend, IN.
Good Luck!

Harri
Administrator Jan 28th 4:30 PM
There is a link to Rasher's book on the Sax on the Web Store. Others mentioned by 3saxes I could not locate in Amazon.com.

Paul Coats'es article Technique Development for the Student has some reference books, too.

Andrew
User ID: 7127533 Jan 28th 6:38 PM
What specific mouthpieces can help with getting the notes speak easier? I can get up to an Altissimo D (D4) with a Selmer Soloist, but every time I try and go higher, it won't come out. It's real hard. I've become real consistant up to D4 since I've switched over to a Fibracell, but I'm beginning to think it's my mouthpiece. Any suggesstions about a good mouthpiece to try? This is my setup :

Selmer Series III Alto
Selmer Short Shank Soloist C* (refaced to about a D)
Fibracell Med Hard Reed

LoneTango
User ID: 1244314 Jan 29th 1:20 AM
I recently got my hands on altissimo playing after a long period of reading about them. From my own experience, the mouthpiece and reed has a lot to do to get these notes out. Andrew, I just recently tried the fibracell reeds and it's VERY easy to play altissimo on these that it's unbelievable. But at the same time, it causes control problems as the harmonics and altissimo are coming out from the lower register if you lack a little control.

Some also say you have to work hard to get there. This could be true or false. I've played for 5 years and when I started to learn altissimo, I hit up to E4 after about a couple days of practice and that might be due to the 5 years I've been playing. But my friend was so amazed by the altissimo that he wanted to learn and he's only just started a few months. So I gave him a fibracell reed and showed him the fingerings and he can hit just as high as I can. So it could be a myth about long hours of practice or just some have it and some don't.

Sorry I wrote so much, but I hope this helps.

It's a funny thing because I found hitting the altissimo above A seems a lot easier than hitting a G, G# or A even. I can now hit up to E4 and what I realized is that anything from there on up, it's all about lip and jaw control to ease into the higher notes because if you realize, most fingering charts repeat the same fingerings as the lower altissimo so it's all up to the mouth to do the work.

About the fingerings, it's not like they are alternate fingerings to a certain note and you can just finger them and get the altissimo. This is where you have to change your embouchure a little. I take in a little more mouthpiece and also extend my lower jaw in a little more than my upper jaw creating something like an "underbite" with my mouth.

For mouthpiece, the ones that work best with altissmo are the ones with a really high baffle and a little open on the tip. Especially the Berg Larens's ending in a 0 or 1 for brightness. Another good piece I've heard about is the SR Technologies Fusion model for tenor, which is really designed for big sound and altissimo, but at the same time brings up some control issues too since it's very easy to hit altissimo with it.

Bootman
User ID: 0136334 Jan 29th 3:17 AM
Fibracells don't quite work properly for altissimo playing unless you bite to hard. If you do this you loose control of the lower range of the horn. I have tried this many timeson the fibracell and have found that lack the control and definition that a cane reed gives in the altissimo. I am talking of playing lines in the extended range of the altissimo above the C4 range. Unfortunately the fibracell doesn't cut it here. I suggest having a look for a Rico Jazz Select or La Voz, both of these are great altissimo reeds. The altissimo notes should slot in without extreme embouchure changes, a looser embouchure for altissimo notes will give you a fuller more rich and focused tone up there than a taught, vice like altissimo embouchure.

High baffle mpcs are better for altissimo playing that wide open chamber mpc. The bigger the tip opening the easier it is too, but be careful there is this point of no further gain if you go too large. Learn to incorporate it into your regular playing so that it becomes a part of your normal range.

Hope this helps.

Randy M.
User ID: 0296604 Jan 29th 6:24 PM
A reed where thae tip is fairly thick back to about a 1/4 helps a little. LaVoz is that kind of flat thick cut. I'm sure there are others. Out of a box you might find one or two good high note reeds that can help you develop the voicing and air control that makes this register work better on most any comfortable reed.

I just tried a Runyon Bionix, where the altissimo does work much easier, but that mps has a very stout bright cutting quality.

At some point control of steady air, voicing and tongue position will give results. For some people a couple of weeks---others a couple of years. When you get above D4, you might need to check out a many fingering combinations as you can find. I've heard that Dr. Luckey's book has many possible fingerings.

Eric
User ID: 2533044 Jan 30th 7:49 AM
I think La Voz reeds (as others have said) are real great for altissmo. They're all I use and I find altissmo very easy.

Kevin Jan 30th 7:02 PM
Well, I will go against everyone here and say that the reed and mpc makes no difference for altissimo's, as long as you have the right reed for the mpc. If you practice your harmonics enough, to where you are completely in tune with how your mouth adjusts and moves from the inside, you will be able to easily play altissimos on any mpc, with any reed. I know, because I can. When I was first practicing them, it was much easier on open mpc's, for jazz, than classical mpc's. But after practicing more, I am equally successful on any mpc I have tried. I really think if you go around looking for the right reed, or mpc, you are putting a mental block in your head that says you just can't do them beyond a certain point. Just learn to use altissimos on your mpc that you have found to like the sound of.

Randy M.
User ID: 0296604 Jan 30th 8:40 PM
Kevin do you remember the first one that came out? After you get one or two out and stable, I agree with what you say---it's just those first few, especially if you're not studying with a good teacher/coach. Anyone remember the high "A "in Harlem Nocturne? That was my first harmonic. Not so hard after you could play that one in public and not screw up.

Simon D
User ID: 1139804 Mar 16th 6:47 PM
(Previously posted as Denis) I will post here under a revised user name now, as I see that there is another Denis posting. Actually Simon is my second name although most people call me by this.

I have not put much work into altissimo, however have attempted to play these notes on various occasions.

From my LIMITED experience, Kevin makes the major point...right reed and strength for the mouthpiece!

I just got some Rigotti Gold and have tried a few notes, and was able to go up much higher than ever before with little work.

I attribute this to reed strength, as I have found by checking strength charts that the Rigooti 2.5 are apparently equivalent to Rico Select 3m , and thus (as I previously suspected) I should use a harder Jazz Select instead of the 2h I have been using.

While I can play on the 2h's , they limit dynamic range with my current mouthpiece (SR Tech Alto 0.078) at the upper end.

Thus, I agree that reed selection and definitely correct strength for the player is crucial IMO.

dgilray May 27th 10:44 PM
I have kept my sax in the case for a long time and am just now (at 41) getting back into serious study. I never tried the altissimo until recently and read all these tips earnestly. Tonight I made a breakthrough, but without changing reeds, mpc or reed alignment. I just finally got it! I was able to get the F# from the forked F at first, but tonight, I was able to get to G,A, and even B (I don't know what numbers they are, just the ones after the high F of the normal range). After I got each note, I would just hold it and even try throat vibrato to see how much "slop" I had in the embouchure. I am using Larry Teal's fingerings from his "Art.. " book.

I was in my bedroom with the ceiling fan going at first and heard the fan actually chopping my notes. I had to turn it off before I could sustain an altissimo note!

Thanks to all for sharing all the tips!

Kevin
User ID: 9753653 May 27th 10:56 PM
Things like ceiling fans, the fan in your computer and any device that makes a noise by either a small fan or just a hum can make notes sound out of tune with something or like their is a little pulsating beat in it. It is either the fan chopping up the sound waves as they bounce through it, or being out of tune with the pitch of the computer humming....

Check out the other headings for altissimo as their are alot of great info.

Mike User ID: 2059234	Jan 28th 2:50 PM Hey all, I was on Saxgourmet.com doing some altissimo (my first few notes) and i was having trouble getting them all out. Is there something im doing wrong? IM doing a normal embouchure and I'm kinda lost. Thanks for reading, ~MIKE~
Harri User ID: 0262034	Jan 28th 3:01 PM I am no specialist on the topic. Just speaking based own my own experience. I had been playing alto for almost ten years before I was introduced to altissimo sounds by a teacher. I learned that producing altissimo is very muach dependent on your horn, embouchure and your ability vary it. I guess there no short-cuts, just keep working on it. I can do G and A pretty fluently, but above A still needs work.
Cougar Brass User ID: 0046004	Jan 28th 3:02 PM First, go here http://www.bobrk.com/saxfaq/2.5.html Some good info there. Then go to my favorite fingering site: http://www.wfg.sneezy.org/ Just click on Altissimo under saxophone. The layout is a little easier to read than the one at Saxgourmet.
3saxes User ID: 1397584	Jan 28th 4:17 PM To Achieve Altissimo takes more than just knowing the fingering. There are three good books on the topic that will teach you the theory and technique as well as give suggested fingering for each note on each horn. "Top-Tones for the Saxophone" Sigurd M. Rascher/Carl Fischer "Saxophone ALtissimo" - Robert A. Luckey "Saxophone High Notes" - Eugene Rousseau I think these are all available on Amazon.com, or via the Woodwind and Brasswind in South Bend, IN. Good Luck!
Harri Administrator	Jan 28th 4:30 PM There is a link to Rasher's book on the Sax on the Web Store. Others mentioned by 3saxes I could not locate in Amazon.com. Paul Coats'es article Technique Development for the Student has some reference books, too.
Andrew User ID: 7127533	Jan 28th 6:38 PM What specific mouthpieces can help with getting the notes speak easier? I can get up to an Altissimo D (D4) with a Selmer Soloist, but every time I try and go higher, it won't come out. It's real hard. I've become real consistant up to D4 since I've switched over to a Fibracell, but I'm beginning to think it's my mouthpiece. Any suggesstions about a good mouthpiece to try? This is my setup : Selmer Series III Alto Selmer Short Shank Soloist C* (refaced to about a D) Fibracell Med Hard Reed
LoneTango User ID: 1244314	Jan 29th 1:20 AM I recently got my hands on altissimo playing after a long period of reading about them. From my own experience, the mouthpiece and reed has a lot to do to get these notes out. Andrew, I just recently tried the fibracell reeds and it's VERY easy to play altissimo on these that it's unbelievable. But at the same time, it causes control problems as the harmonics and altissimo are coming out from the lower register if you lack a little control. Some also say you have to work hard to get there. This could be true or false. I've played for 5 years and when I started to learn altissimo, I hit up to E4 after about a couple days of practice and that might be due to the 5 years I've been playing. But my friend was so amazed by the altissimo that he wanted to learn and he's only just started a few months. So I gave him a fibracell reed and showed him the fingerings and he can hit just as high as I can. So it could be a myth about long hours of practice or just some have it and some don't. Sorry I wrote so much, but I hope this helps. It's a funny thing because I found hitting the altissimo above A seems a lot easier than hitting a G, G# or A even. I can now hit up to E4 and what I realized is that anything from there on up, it's all about lip and jaw control to ease into the higher notes because if you realize, most fingering charts repeat the same fingerings as the lower altissimo so it's all up to the mouth to do the work. About the fingerings, it's not like they are alternate fingerings to a certain note and you can just finger them and get the altissimo. This is where you have to change your embouchure a little. I take in a little more mouthpiece and also extend my lower jaw in a little more than my upper jaw creating something like an "underbite" with my mouth. For mouthpiece, the ones that work best with altissmo are the ones with a really high baffle and a little open on the tip. Especially the Berg Larens's ending in a 0 or 1 for brightness. Another good piece I've heard about is the SR Technologies Fusion model for tenor, which is really designed for big sound and altissimo, but at the same time brings up some control issues too since it's very easy to hit altissimo with it.
Bootman User ID: 0136334	Jan 29th 3:17 AM Fibracells don't quite work properly for altissimo playing unless you bite to hard. If you do this you loose control of the lower range of the horn. I have tried this many timeson the fibracell and have found that lack the control and definition that a cane reed gives in the altissimo. I am talking of playing lines in the extended range of the altissimo above the C4 range. Unfortunately the fibracell doesn't cut it here. I suggest having a look for a Rico Jazz Select or La Voz, both of these are great altissimo reeds. The altissimo notes should slot in without extreme embouchure changes, a looser embouchure for altissimo notes will give you a fuller more rich and focused tone up there than a taught, vice like altissimo embouchure. High baffle mpcs are better for altissimo playing that wide open chamber mpc. The bigger the tip opening the easier it is too, but be careful there is this point of no further gain if you go too large. Learn to incorporate it into your regular playing so that it becomes a part of your normal range. Hope this helps.
Randy M. User ID: 0296604	Jan 29th 6:24 PM A reed where thae tip is fairly thick back to about a 1/4 helps a little. LaVoz is that kind of flat thick cut. I'm sure there are others. Out of a box you might find one or two good high note reeds that can help you develop the voicing and air control that makes this register work better on most any comfortable reed. I just tried a Runyon Bionix, where the altissimo does work much easier, but that mps has a very stout bright cutting quality. At some point control of steady air, voicing and tongue position will give results. For some people a couple of weeks---others a couple of years. When you get above D4, you might need to check out a many fingering combinations as you can find. I've heard that Dr. Luckey's book has many possible fingerings.
Eric User ID: 2533044	Jan 30th 7:49 AM I think La Voz reeds (as others have said) are real great for altissmo. They're all I use and I find altissmo very easy.
Kevin	Jan 30th 7:02 PM Well, I will go against everyone here and say that the reed and mpc makes no difference for altissimo's, as long as you have the right reed for the mpc. If you practice your harmonics enough, to where you are completely in tune with how your mouth adjusts and moves from the inside, you will be able to easily play altissimos on any mpc, with any reed. I know, because I can. When I was first practicing them, it was much easier on open mpc's, for jazz, than classical mpc's. But after practicing more, I am equally successful on any mpc I have tried. I really think if you go around looking for the right reed, or mpc, you are putting a mental block in your head that says you just can't do them beyond a certain point. Just learn to use altissimos on your mpc that you have found to like the sound of.
Randy M. User ID: 0296604	Jan 30th 8:40 PM Kevin do you remember the first one that came out? After you get one or two out and stable, I agree with what you say---it's just those first few, especially if you're not studying with a good teacher/coach. Anyone remember the high "A "in Harlem Nocturne? That was my first harmonic. Not so hard after you could play that one in public and not screw up.
Simon D User ID: 1139804	Mar 16th 6:47 PM (Previously posted as Denis) I will post here under a revised user name now, as I see that there is another Denis posting. Actually Simon is my second name although most people call me by this. I have not put much work into altissimo, however have attempted to play these notes on various occasions. From my LIMITED experience, Kevin makes the major point...right reed and strength for the mouthpiece! I just got some Rigotti Gold and have tried a few notes, and was able to go up much higher than ever before with little work. I attribute this to reed strength, as I have found by checking strength charts that the Rigooti 2.5 are apparently equivalent to Rico Select 3m , and thus (as I previously suspected) I should use a harder Jazz Select instead of the 2h I have been using. While I can play on the 2h's , they limit dynamic range with my current mouthpiece (SR Tech Alto 0.078) at the upper end. Thus, I agree that reed selection and definitely correct strength for the player is crucial IMO.
dgilray	May 27th 10:44 PM I have kept my sax in the case for a long time and am just now (at 41) getting back into serious study. I never tried the altissimo until recently and read all these tips earnestly. Tonight I made a breakthrough, but without changing reeds, mpc or reed alignment. I just finally got it! I was able to get the F# from the forked F at first, but tonight, I was able to get to G,A, and even B (I don't know what numbers they are, just the ones after the high F of the normal range). After I got each note, I would just hold it and even try throat vibrato to see how much "slop" I had in the embouchure. I am using Larry Teal's fingerings from his "Art.. " book. I was in my bedroom with the ceiling fan going at first and heard the fan actually chopping my notes. I had to turn it off before I could sustain an altissimo note! Thanks to all for sharing all the tips!
Kevin User ID: 9753653	May 27th 10:56 PM Things like ceiling fans, the fan in your computer and any device that makes a noise by either a small fan or just a hum can make notes sound out of tune with something or like their is a little pulsating beat in it. It is either the fan chopping up the sound waves as they bounce through it, or being out of tune with the pitch of the computer humming.... Check out the other headings for altissimo as their are alot of great info.