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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Altissimo & Multiphonics / Split Tones

Next 20 Messages

BobH
User ID: 9467593 Aug 16th 11:21 AM
I'm curious what fingerings people are using for split tones on notes other than F#3 and A3, which I believe are the most common and easiest tones to split, at least on alto. I recently found a fingering for a G3 split that works pretty well on my Conn 6M. It's left-hand fork plus low Bb. Anyone else got a split-tone fingering or technique you'd like to share?

Screech
User ID: 2309834 Aug 16th 10:21 PM
There are books on it by Dorn, Caravan, and Bergeron, and articles in Sax Journal on it. It'll take me a while but I can dig up the info. if you like. I haven't seen the Bergeron or Dorn books though.

BobH
User ID: 9467593 Aug 19th 12:39 PM
Thanks, Screech. I haven't seen the Dorn book, but it seems to be the standard text on multiphonics. I'm not familiar with the other two, but I'd be interested in hearing about them. Just so we're on the same wavelength: I'm specifically interested in split tones, which (as I think you already know) is a certain kind of multiphonic that seems to be a crunch of overtones.

I've seen this topic arise in SOTW from time to time, with different comments on how to produce Sanborn-style splits. The altissimo F# and A seem to be the ones folks are familiar with; with a little tinkering, I've also managed a split on G3. Do the books you've mentioned address this kind of multiphonic? If so, Malecki Music is right down the street, and I'm ready to spend a buck.

BTW, amigo, how goes the altissimo quest? :-)

Screech
User ID: 2309834 Aug 20th 5:48 AM
Hey BobH! No the books I have don't talk about splits but the Sax Journal articles do. Do you have access to back articles of the SJ? I go to a local conservatory to get stuff and the stuff that's lost or mutilated I order from Dorn. The best article on it, I think, is Bert Wilson's Saxophone Multiphonics, by Boyd Phelps, SJ May/June 1999.

My altissimo quest is coming along. I don't comment on it here much - I just don't have the time anymore. I'm working on scales (naturals only) from C5 to C6+. Ahh, the life of a Lenny-chaser :)

reeder
User ID: 0074284 Aug 20th 7:21 AM
Bob: All of the notes that I can split I use the identical fingerings that I use for the "clean" note. The easiest to split seem to be G2, G#2, A2, C#3, D3, D#3, F3 (front F fingering or palm key version, although they sound different), F#3 (front F# or palm keys if you have a side F# key, again they sound different), G3 (L13, R13 on alto, front F on tenor), G#3 (L13, R1, side C), A3 (L23), & A#3 (L3, side C). It's a matter of tongue position, lip pressure, etc., rather than different fingerings. B3 & B4 are very difficult to split in my experience. Nelson Rangell & Andy Snitzer seem to have complete command of splits over the entire range of the horn!

reeder
User ID: 0074284 Aug 20th 8:26 AM
Sorry, should be A#4 as last entry, not A#3.

John Laughter
User ID: 8032783 Aug 22nd 10:18 PM
Screech, any chance of getting a photocopy Bert Wilson's Saxophone Multiphonics, by Boyd Phelps, SJ May/June 1999? JSAXL@aol.com

Reeder, do you know of a book that covers this technique/fingering? I would like to spend some serious time on this unique effect. I will even pay for some written fingering charts. Thanks.

reeder
User ID: 8032783 Aug 23rd 8:40 AM
I don't know of any books on the subject of splitting notes, but if you work to develop a strong altissimo, the ability to split those tones will be an added bonus. In other words, you'll simultaneously develop these sounds as a result of the effort. It's just a matter of fine tuning the control of the "split" sound for a given fingering vs the "clean" tone. After a while, you'll be able to play a certain altissimo note "cleanly", then in the same breath, seamlessly turn it into the split tone & back again to clean. For the record, the altissimo fingerings above are for alto unless otherwise specified, as tenor altissimo is often completely different fingerings (although some may work on both depending on the horns, etc.).

BobH
User ID: 9467593 Aug 23rd 10:38 AM
Screech, I'd be very interested in obtaining a copy of the Sax Journal articles. Any chance of your sending me a photocopy too? If so, tell me how you'd like to send it--fax or scan--and I'll give you my info.

Reeder, thanks for the input and the fingerings you use. You seem to have a solid command of this technique. Just to make sure I understand, you're actually splitting a number of standard-register tones as well as altissimo, right?

I've heard it said that split tones can be produced by: overblowing; changing embouchure tension; changing the angle of the horn to the mouth; not using the octave key; using specific fingerings...etc. I've worked with each of these ideas, and am making some headway as well as hitting some walls (part of the price of progress!)

Thanks for all your input. If there's more to be said, please keep it coming.

John Laughter
User ID: 8032783 Aug 23rd 4:29 PM
Another effect that I really enjoy and have been using a lot of for several years on alto and tenor is playing all notes above middle C w/o the octave key which, with some work,will give a little of both octaves. Nice sound/tone for some music.

Screech
User ID: 2309834 Aug 24th 4:07 AM
BobH please send me an e-mail (bbechtel@qis.net).

Screech
User ID: 2309834 Aug 25th 11:03 PM
I haven't rec'd an e-mail yet BobH. That's OK though, I am having second thoughts about sending copies out due to copyright infringement. Same for you too John Laughter. Sorry guys. Back issues of Sax Journal are available from dornpub.com though.

reeder
User ID: 0645514 Aug 26th 5:27 AM
Bob H: The answer to your question is "yes", the split can be done in the "normal " range of the horn (see post with fingerings). In fact, one of the easiest to split is the G#2 (also G2). I've even noticed on this site that some people who have a Series III alto have trouble not getting the split sound on it! It may be helpful to note that often the split sound requires a bit more "force" from diaphragm & embochure over a clean note. To be thorough, the split sound is really the result of the sound of the note being fingered as well as the sound of the note an octave below. It also seems as if playing these notes a lot can beat up a reed much more quickly than normal.

soprano player
User ID: 8290473 Aug 26th 5:39 AM
Listen to Andy Snitzer, he can do split tone on every note on his horn.
I have much success doing split tone on any note above D2 by putting your tongue closer to, or even on the tip of the reed, while blowing more air and slightly tightening up the embouchure. I learned this while attempting to ghost notes.

BobH
User ID: 9467593 Aug 26th 9:08 AM
Just back online...problems with my home computer. Screech, I understand; thanks for keeping things above board.

Reeder, now that you mention it, I've been getting a split on my G2 for quite a while. I just never thought of it as a split. It seems to come naturally in high-volume playing situatations. One of these days I'll rediscover the meaning of mezzo forte.

John Laughter
User ID: 8032783 Aug 29th 5:02 AM
Gentlemen, let me ask a question. I need your help. I may be confused but isn't "multiphonic" and "split tone" two different techniques?

When I hear the term "splt tone", I think of the notes that Sanborn and many of the newer players started using about 20 years ago. An altissimo note, or possibly any of the upper left palm key notes that are played in such a way that one gets that note and the lower partial(s) which produces a unique tone.

On the other hand, "multiphonics" is the playing of, for example, a low Bb and lipping the partials above that note, i.e. the octave, the 5th etc above the low Bb. The reason I ask is that the Bert Wilson study, I believe, is the latter.

Is there a book/article or fingering chart(s) on the NET or for sale that deals specifically with the "split tone"? Or are both terms referring to the same thing?

BobH
User ID: 9467593 Aug 30th 11:27 AM
John, my understanding of split tones is pretty much the same as yours, though Reeder has made me rethink them in terms of the horn's normal register. I think it could be argued that split tones are a very particular kind of multiphonic (since "multiphonic" simply means "many sounds"), but practically speaking, we're talking about two different approaches. And from the discussion above, there appears to be nothing that deals specifically with this effect other than the Saxophone Journal articles that Screech has mentioned. It's not an uncommon practice, but apparently it's not covered in the technical lit.

What bugs me is the thought that this is probably a lot like circular breathing: a mystery to the uninitiated, but simple enough for those who've "got it."

reeder
User ID: 1676554 Aug 30th 1:36 PM
Bob H: I think you're right on when you say the split is a particular type of multiphonic. It really became a useful tool for more R&B & rock applications since it sounds "distorted" or "dirty" (kind of like a guitar in rock, very powerful; Sanborn & Brecker are champions of the use of this effect). It may be thought of as adding the sound of the octave below the note fingered, or the "main" tone. When people refer to multiphonics, or more specifically, "harmonics", they are speaking of adding tones above the note fingered (technically "overtones", often 2 more to the fingered note to make a 3-tone "chord"). A great example of the musical use of this effect on sax is Coltrane's "Harmonique", on his "Coltrane Jazz" recording, where he incorporates a few multiphonic notes in the melody proper (Brecker does a similar thing on his "Delta City Blues"). Again, the "split" is sounding 2 notes at once, the main note & the octave below in relatively equal parts, where the harmonic is often 3 notes (lowest/fundamental tone which is fingered, & 2 additional from the overtone series), but the "added" tones are above the fingered note. It all stems from the same acoustic concept, the overtone series, but it's just a matter of execution & resulting sound. Once you get good at overtones where you can play the individual notes in a series at will using 1 fingering, even playing melodically with those notes in a deliberate fashion, the splits & harmonics will fall into place. BTW, if you are struggling to get more than just the octave above the note fingered in the overtone series for low notes such as B flat, B, & C, try "cheating" a bit by "cracking" the L2 key very slightly for getting the fifth above, 2nd octave above, etc. Just make sure to let the cat out first!

John Laughter
User ID: 8032783 Sep 2nd 4:20 PM
Thanks reeder. I am going to download the above tunes if I can find one of them.

There was an alto player whose recording was used as background music when I was put on hold by Sam Ash Music and other music dealers several years ago. I recall asking if they knew who was playing but it was "canned" music that was purchased by the company so no one knew the artist. The sax player was spliting his the tones all up and down the scale and would do it by going "into" and "out of" the split tone on a given note of the solo. Sounded fantastic. I wish I knew who was playing. Very contemporary jazz/funk style band.

Thanks also for the above education.

John Laughter
User ID: 8032783 Sep 2nd 5:16 PM
I found the Brecker tune. I have heard it before but forgot about it. I see what you mean reeder. Reminds me of the Coltrane and Lateef records that used to listen to in the 60s. I will see if I can find one that illustrates the split tones that I have in mind, i.e., left hand notes and higher.

Next 20 Messages

BobH User ID: 9467593	Aug 16th 11:21 AM I'm curious what fingerings people are using for split tones on notes other than F#3 and A3, which I believe are the most common and easiest tones to split, at least on alto. I recently found a fingering for a G3 split that works pretty well on my Conn 6M. It's left-hand fork plus low Bb. Anyone else got a split-tone fingering or technique you'd like to share?
Screech User ID: 2309834	Aug 16th 10:21 PM There are books on it by Dorn, Caravan, and Bergeron, and articles in Sax Journal on it. It'll take me a while but I can dig up the info. if you like. I haven't seen the Bergeron or Dorn books though.
BobH User ID: 9467593	Aug 19th 12:39 PM Thanks, Screech. I haven't seen the Dorn book, but it seems to be the standard text on multiphonics. I'm not familiar with the other two, but I'd be interested in hearing about them. Just so we're on the same wavelength: I'm specifically interested in split tones, which (as I think you already know) is a certain kind of multiphonic that seems to be a crunch of overtones. I've seen this topic arise in SOTW from time to time, with different comments on how to produce Sanborn-style splits. The altissimo F# and A seem to be the ones folks are familiar with; with a little tinkering, I've also managed a split on G3. Do the books you've mentioned address this kind of multiphonic? If so, Malecki Music is right down the street, and I'm ready to spend a buck. BTW, amigo, how goes the altissimo quest? :-)
Screech User ID: 2309834	Aug 20th 5:48 AM Hey BobH! No the books I have don't talk about splits but the Sax Journal articles do. Do you have access to back articles of the SJ? I go to a local conservatory to get stuff and the stuff that's lost or mutilated I order from Dorn. The best article on it, I think, is Bert Wilson's Saxophone Multiphonics, by Boyd Phelps, SJ May/June 1999. My altissimo quest is coming along. I don't comment on it here much - I just don't have the time anymore. I'm working on scales (naturals only) from C5 to C6+. Ahh, the life of a Lenny-chaser :)
reeder User ID: 0074284	Aug 20th 7:21 AM Bob: All of the notes that I can split I use the identical fingerings that I use for the "clean" note. The easiest to split seem to be G2, G#2, A2, C#3, D3, D#3, F3 (front F fingering or palm key version, although they sound different), F#3 (front F# or palm keys if you have a side F# key, again they sound different), G3 (L13, R13 on alto, front F on tenor), G#3 (L13, R1, side C), A3 (L23), & A#3 (L3, side C). It's a matter of tongue position, lip pressure, etc., rather than different fingerings. B3 & B4 are very difficult to split in my experience. Nelson Rangell & Andy Snitzer seem to have complete command of splits over the entire range of the horn!
reeder User ID: 0074284	Aug 20th 8:26 AM Sorry, should be A#4 as last entry, not A#3.
John Laughter User ID: 8032783	Aug 22nd 10:18 PM Screech, any chance of getting a photocopy Bert Wilson's Saxophone Multiphonics, by Boyd Phelps, SJ May/June 1999? JSAXL@aol.com Reeder, do you know of a book that covers this technique/fingering? I would like to spend some serious time on this unique effect. I will even pay for some written fingering charts. Thanks.
reeder User ID: 8032783	Aug 23rd 8:40 AM I don't know of any books on the subject of splitting notes, but if you work to develop a strong altissimo, the ability to split those tones will be an added bonus. In other words, you'll simultaneously develop these sounds as a result of the effort. It's just a matter of fine tuning the control of the "split" sound for a given fingering vs the "clean" tone. After a while, you'll be able to play a certain altissimo note "cleanly", then in the same breath, seamlessly turn it into the split tone & back again to clean. For the record, the altissimo fingerings above are for alto unless otherwise specified, as tenor altissimo is often completely different fingerings (although some may work on both depending on the horns, etc.).
BobH User ID: 9467593	Aug 23rd 10:38 AM Screech, I'd be very interested in obtaining a copy of the Sax Journal articles. Any chance of your sending me a photocopy too? If so, tell me how you'd like to send it--fax or scan--and I'll give you my info. Reeder, thanks for the input and the fingerings you use. You seem to have a solid command of this technique. Just to make sure I understand, you're actually splitting a number of standard-register tones as well as altissimo, right? I've heard it said that split tones can be produced by: overblowing; changing embouchure tension; changing the angle of the horn to the mouth; not using the octave key; using specific fingerings...etc. I've worked with each of these ideas, and am making some headway as well as hitting some walls (part of the price of progress!) Thanks for all your input. If there's more to be said, please keep it coming.
John Laughter User ID: 8032783	Aug 23rd 4:29 PM Another effect that I really enjoy and have been using a lot of for several years on alto and tenor is playing all notes above middle C w/o the octave key which, with some work,will give a little of both octaves. Nice sound/tone for some music.
Screech User ID: 2309834	Aug 24th 4:07 AM BobH please send me an e-mail (bbechtel@qis.net).
Screech User ID: 2309834	Aug 25th 11:03 PM I haven't rec'd an e-mail yet BobH. That's OK though, I am having second thoughts about sending copies out due to copyright infringement. Same for you too John Laughter. Sorry guys. Back issues of Sax Journal are available from dornpub.com though.
reeder User ID: 0645514	Aug 26th 5:27 AM Bob H: The answer to your question is "yes", the split can be done in the "normal " range of the horn (see post with fingerings). In fact, one of the easiest to split is the G#2 (also G2). I've even noticed on this site that some people who have a Series III alto have trouble not getting the split sound on it! It may be helpful to note that often the split sound requires a bit more "force" from diaphragm & embochure over a clean note. To be thorough, the split sound is really the result of the sound of the note being fingered as well as the sound of the note an octave below. It also seems as if playing these notes a lot can beat up a reed much more quickly than normal.
soprano player User ID: 8290473	Aug 26th 5:39 AM Listen to Andy Snitzer, he can do split tone on every note on his horn. I have much success doing split tone on any note above D2 by putting your tongue closer to, or even on the tip of the reed, while blowing more air and slightly tightening up the embouchure. I learned this while attempting to ghost notes.
BobH User ID: 9467593	Aug 26th 9:08 AM Just back online...problems with my home computer. Screech, I understand; thanks for keeping things above board. Reeder, now that you mention it, I've been getting a split on my G2 for quite a while. I just never thought of it as a split. It seems to come naturally in high-volume playing situatations. One of these days I'll rediscover the meaning of mezzo forte.
John Laughter User ID: 8032783	Aug 29th 5:02 AM Gentlemen, let me ask a question. I need your help. I may be confused but isn't "multiphonic" and "split tone" two different techniques? When I hear the term "splt tone", I think of the notes that Sanborn and many of the newer players started using about 20 years ago. An altissimo note, or possibly any of the upper left palm key notes that are played in such a way that one gets that note and the lower partial(s) which produces a unique tone. On the other hand, "multiphonics" is the playing of, for example, a low Bb and lipping the partials above that note, i.e. the octave, the 5th etc above the low Bb. The reason I ask is that the Bert Wilson study, I believe, is the latter. Is there a book/article or fingering chart(s) on the NET or for sale that deals specifically with the "split tone"? Or are both terms referring to the same thing?
BobH User ID: 9467593	Aug 30th 11:27 AM John, my understanding of split tones is pretty much the same as yours, though Reeder has made me rethink them in terms of the horn's normal register. I think it could be argued that split tones are a very particular kind of multiphonic (since "multiphonic" simply means "many sounds"), but practically speaking, we're talking about two different approaches. And from the discussion above, there appears to be nothing that deals specifically with this effect other than the Saxophone Journal articles that Screech has mentioned. It's not an uncommon practice, but apparently it's not covered in the technical lit. What bugs me is the thought that this is probably a lot like circular breathing: a mystery to the uninitiated, but simple enough for those who've "got it."
reeder User ID: 1676554	Aug 30th 1:36 PM Bob H: I think you're right on when you say the split is a particular type of multiphonic. It really became a useful tool for more R&B & rock applications since it sounds "distorted" or "dirty" (kind of like a guitar in rock, very powerful; Sanborn & Brecker are champions of the use of this effect). It may be thought of as adding the sound of the octave below the note fingered, or the "main" tone. When people refer to multiphonics, or more specifically, "harmonics", they are speaking of adding tones above the note fingered (technically "overtones", often 2 more to the fingered note to make a 3-tone "chord"). A great example of the musical use of this effect on sax is Coltrane's "Harmonique", on his "Coltrane Jazz" recording, where he incorporates a few multiphonic notes in the melody proper (Brecker does a similar thing on his "Delta City Blues"). Again, the "split" is sounding 2 notes at once, the main note & the octave below in relatively equal parts, where the harmonic is often 3 notes (lowest/fundamental tone which is fingered, & 2 additional from the overtone series), but the "added" tones are above the fingered note. It all stems from the same acoustic concept, the overtone series, but it's just a matter of execution & resulting sound. Once you get good at overtones where you can play the individual notes in a series at will using 1 fingering, even playing melodically with those notes in a deliberate fashion, the splits & harmonics will fall into place. BTW, if you are struggling to get more than just the octave above the note fingered in the overtone series for low notes such as B flat, B, & C, try "cheating" a bit by "cracking" the L2 key very slightly for getting the fifth above, 2nd octave above, etc. Just make sure to let the cat out first!
John Laughter User ID: 8032783	Sep 2nd 4:20 PM Thanks reeder. I am going to download the above tunes if I can find one of them. There was an alto player whose recording was used as background music when I was put on hold by Sam Ash Music and other music dealers several years ago. I recall asking if they knew who was playing but it was "canned" music that was purchased by the company so no one knew the artist. The sax player was spliting his the tones all up and down the scale and would do it by going "into" and "out of" the split tone on a given note of the solo. Sounded fantastic. I wish I knew who was playing. Very contemporary jazz/funk style band. Thanks also for the above education.
John Laughter User ID: 8032783	Sep 2nd 5:16 PM I found the Brecker tune. I have heard it before but forgot about it. I see what you mean reeder. Reminds me of the Coltrane and Lateef records that used to listen to in the 60s. I will see if I can find one that illustrates the split tones that I have in mind, i.e., left hand notes and higher.